Need honest opinions on current boomboxes

Reli

Boomus Fidelis
Actually I wasn't talking about square cones, I was talking about square cabinets with 90 degree corners. If it's shaped like that, without any fiber-fill inside, then there will be a lot of reflections that could cause distortion. That's why a lot of manufacturers today make cabinets with rounded interior corners. I have also seen some manufacturers line the walls with sheets of foam with a "ripple" design instead of just flat sheets.

I'm no expert either, all I know is what I read. Here's a couple of good articles:


 
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BoomBoxStash

Member (SA)
Actually I wasn't talking about square cones, I was talking about square cabinets with 90 degree corners. If it's shaped like that, without any fiber-fill inside, then there will be a lot of reflections that could cause distortion. That's why a lot of manufacturers today make cabinets with rounded corners. I have also seen some manufacturers line the walls with sheets of foam with a "ripple" design instead of just flat sheets.

I'm no expert either, all I know is what I read. Here's a couple of good articles:


Hahaha, well, for what it's worth, the square corners on the outside are also supposed to affect the sound too, causing phasing issues and the like. Supposedly, rounded outside edges make a difference.

Honestly, I don't know how much matters and how much is over-the-top nonsense?

I still remember the old phasing of speakers, keeping all voice coils in-line, in the 80's. I experimented way back then. I never did notice a difference. Maybe it's just me.

There are those "audiophiles" (an abused term on the internet which used to mean something, imo) who claim they can hear better sound when an amp is connected to speakers with higher grade larger speaker wire. I have my serious doubts. Maybe if you have a monster amp delivering hundreds of watts per channel over a long speaker cable, I suppose. Even then, idk lol. A good quality lampcord cable never seemed a problem for me, personally.

I'll check out those links later tonight.
 

Reli

Boomus Fidelis
Those are the same guys who claim that you should buy speakers capable of playing 25kHz or more, because it supposedly adds "dimension" and "flavor" to the sound.....Despite the fact that the average adult can only hear up to about 16kHz
 
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BoomBoxStash

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why not 50Khz, just to be safe


50kg each; unshippable and super rare and expensive
lol. I bought a pair of Realistic Mach Ones back in the latter 70's. Its horn tweeter supposedly delivered output to 25Khz.

The argument was, and is, that if the driver can deliver output above 20Khz, then we may assume the same driver will deliver 'audible' tones with less effort and more accurately. idk how much that justification holds true in reality? It does make some sense, at least at first read.

And I have seen treble drivers rated at 30Khz to 50Khz! Sometimes their manufacturers warn of output hurting your pets. Are such remarks a scam and a selling pitch? Your guess is as good as mine.

50kgs? That's heavy. My Mach Ones weighed about 60 lbs each, and they were ball busters.
 

BoomBoxStash

Member (SA)
I'd like to update my above reply, if you will.

I am a novice. An audio enthusiast, ever since the mid 70's. I am not entirely certain I understand some of the principles which I described, above.

For instance, the fiberfil effect.

I do know the fiberfill does pull heat out of the air, internally. However, as I was sitting here, I must admit I am not entirely sure how it positively affects the bass driver.
What I mean is, I stated the heat energy causes more motion of the internal air molecules, which I stated then increases air pressure.

The above may not be entirely correct. I know, for a fact, that increased movement of air lowers barometric pressure, by thinning the air, hence, the dropping of air pressure prior to a storm, or why your shower curtain is pushed inward when showering.

Therefore, I am not entirely comprehending how the thermal effect of the fiberfil enhances the interface between the bass driver and the internal volume? I just know that the thermal effect is definitely part of that equation.

Just thought I'd clear that up before anyone began asking questions lol. I don't like to mislead anyone.

As for the discussion of flat aluminum drivers, I never liked the sound of the Sony square woofers. But, I never liked the sound of any aluminum woofer, either. imo, the aluminum material colors the sound. Every material has some coloring effect. Less is always better, imo.

Flat drivers have their theoretical pluses. But they also have their minuses, as Reli points out. The same goes for standard conical cones and curvelinear cones, which I remember coming out back in the 70's or 80's, and which I never liked, either. To me, curvelinear cones also sound weird.

Sometimes I have to take a step back and just be amazed at how a simple cone mounted to a motor-like assembly can reproduce as many different instruments or voices as well as they do. It's quite a feat, I think. Sometimes I feel like I am being overly picky lol.
When I opened up my Mach Ones, back in the day, I found an interesting arrangement. The fiberfil layers were not glued to the sides and rear. Instead, layers of fiberfil were hung, like curtains, in layers, directly behind the woofers, from the interior top of the enclosure to the bottom. This arrangement of fiberfil forces all sound waves from then rear of the woofer to pass thru the fiberfil layers, thus affecting and damping the rear waves 100%.

I thought that was a very unique and effective use of fiberfil.
 

Reli

Boomus Fidelis
These speakers that claim outlandish frequency response.....What they don't tell you is that it can only do so at like 20-30 decibels below reference level
 
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BoomBoxStash

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These speakers that claim outlandish frequency response.....What they don't tell you is that it can only do so at like 20-30 decibels below reference level
That's probably true. Overall response without any measure of deviation (+/- 3dB, +/- 5dB, +/-10dB) really tells us nothing. I recall home component floor speakers claiming full 20-20Khz, but no tolerance level stated. Sometimes, if I found a manufacturer's response graph, it might indicate the stated response was measured at -20dB to -30dB, or the extreme ends of the spectrum pwere -20dB below the reference at 1Khz.

On the other hand, unlike electronics (amps, tape decks, CD/DVD players, etc), an accurately measured speaker response doesn't tell us as much, either.
For example, an amp with a flat response indicates the amp should sound pretty good overall, due to the amp being able to reproduce all signals evenly. Our expectations are high.
However, floor speakers with a very flat response in an anechoic chamber, flat down the low end may end up sounding bass heavy, muddy or dull, due to placement. Floors, walls, ceilings, can boost bass tones by +6dB to +12dB, making the speaker sound anything but flat in the real world.

For me, hearing is believing. That's one reason I miss the 70's and 80's. In our modern order online world, we miss out on auditioning equipment in person, before buying. That's an important problem, imo.
Back in the day, I might audition a whole range of Sony or JBL floor speakers, ranging from smaller 2-way speakers to much larger multi-driver towers, all standing side by side, in a row. I could play each one and compare their sonic characteristics. From the same manufacturer, one model might sound terrible and another model from the same line might sound markedly better. I never once, in my time, ever listened to an entire line of speakers, wherein each one sounded good. For all the hype by wannebe audiophiles and experts, there is no such thing as a formula that always works, when constructing a speaker. In the end, it is still hit and miss, imo.
 
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Reli

Boomus Fidelis
Yeah I miss stores like that too. Most of them have been driven out of the market by Best Buy. Today most people seem to be comfortable buying speakers sight-unseen, just based on hype or because of the prestigious brand name (especially British or Danish speakers lol)

"The bloggers said it sounds good, so it should sound good in my house as well"
 

BoomBoxStash

Member (SA)
Yeah I miss stores like that too. Most of them have been driven out of the market by Best Buy. Today most people seem to be comfortable buying speakers sight-unseen, just based on hype or because of the prestigious brand name (especially British or Danish speakers lol)

"The bloggers said it sounds good, so it should sound good in my house as well"
Right! I'll never believe anyone but my own ears or maybe someone like my nephew, who happens to also enjoy audio, who grew up watching me go thru audio systems and build speakers, and who is also a musician.

Once, about 8 yrs ago, I walked into a high-end audio store we had happened to pass by. In there expensive room, they had McIntosh components. Amps the size of suitcases with speaker cables as thick as our garden hose.

The salesperson bragged about a pair of their tower speakers, which reminded me of the old Infinity line from the late 70's or early 80's. A couple of subs at the bottom of each speaker column and maybe 20 midranges and 30 tweeters, all in a vertical row, the columns standing over 6 feet tall. The HF drivers reminded me of the old 'emit' drivers in Infinity speakers. The pair of column speakers alone (minus the subs) cost $50,000!!!!!

So my nephew and I auditioned that set, even tho the entire stereo cost more than my house lol.

We told the salesman we were critical listeners and prefer intricate detailed audio performance. The salesman judges us by our looks, I suppose, and proceeds to play Led Zepplen. Of all the music he could have chosen, he played some of the crappiest sounding recordings ever made in the 70's. Even Zepplen's so-called "remastered" tracks still sound like crap! I'm sorry. But, those recordings, while I enjoy them, have some of the most compressed sound and poorest fidelity of any of the good 70's rock bands.

Needless to say, that $300,000 audio system did not sound much better than a $20 GE clock radio. Just a lot louder. With irritating skreechy highs which would cause fatigue to just about anyone except maybe a true-to-the-end headbanger.

As we listened, we laughed at the sound and the salesman trying to convince us the system sounded excellent. We walked out of that showroom feeling better about our own home stereos outperforming a millionaire's audio system. My nephew just shook his head, saying he can't believe such an expensive system can sound like $hit.

Yeah. I don't believe what anyone else says regarding audio. Too many wannabe experts out there.
 
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Reli

Boomus Fidelis
McIntosh has gone full hipster. Banking on their name and their big blue VU meters. They even put a rendering of those meters on their car audio systems. It impresses the under-30 crowd who think it's unique.

Their hybrid tube amps are such a joke. $4,500 for this, and they put green LED lights under the tubes?????? Stupid decision.

 

BoomBoxStash

Member (SA)
McIntosh has gone full hipster. Banking on their name and their big blue VU meters. They even put a rendering of those meters on their car audio systems. It impresses the under-30 crowd who think it's unique.

Their hybrid tube amps are such a joke. $4,500 for this, and they put green LED lights under the tubes?????? Stupid decision.

lol, I have seen pics of their VU meters in their car audio. I like that. But, I like analog style VUs.
It's actually a dumb idea. It can cause a driver to take their eyes off the road. I don't really see their purpose other than their vintage appeal. Like the analog clocks in some BMWs or Lexus models.

I remember when McIntosh was either the top brand or one of the top few, for sure. They had a high-end competitor, back then. The other brand slips my mind. I remember the two brands showcased at old Sears stores, side by side, in a separate 'high-end' audio room, when Sears was still awesome.

People like owning things with brand names. Show-off pieces. I sold a crappy used VW vehicle that I regretted buying, many years ago. What a POS! idc what anyone says about German engineering. This model was assembled in Mexico. It was falling apart. Terribly expensive to repair. But I sold it for top dollar. Why? Because it was a VW. People came to look, for the badging. Personally, I much prefer my Ford.

I was never overly impressed with true high-end expensive audio. Even the old Infinity tower columns I had mentioned. I auditioned those at an audio show I visited with my brother, in the early 80's. The Infinity columns looked crazy. But the sound was not as impressive as I had expected. They were priced at something like $20,000 a pair, way back then. I think I expected the sound to be 20 times better than my Realistic Mach Ones, for which I paid about $260 each. I really don't remember them sounding all that good. They seemed unusually bright to me. But, it was a long time ago.

lol, the reason we attended that audio show was for the down to earth cheap stuff. Back then, the Realistic Minimus-7 speaker was already gaining popularity and everyone copied them. At this audio show, they advertised a pair of "famous maker" speakers which looked very similar to the Minimus-7, in the pics. The 7's were very well made, with high quality drivers and crossovers in a solid heavy die-cast aluminum cabinet. The "famous maker" advertised special was a pair of cheaply made plastic cabs with cheap crap 'woofers' and cone tweeters. It turned out, the actual brand was called Famous Maker hahaahahahahaha. I did not buy them. They sounded like crap. But we had a good laugh. I think that show also offered some small car amps made by Sampo or something similar, attempting to swindle consumers confusing them with the authentic Sanyo brand. Good times!
 

BoomBoxStash

Member (SA)
McIntosh has gone full hipster. Banking on their name and their big blue VU meters. They even put a rendering of those meters on their car audio systems. It impresses the under-30 crowd who think it's unique.

Their hybrid tube amps are such a joke. $4,500 for this, and they put green LED lights under the tubes?????? Stupid decision.



I remember one exception to the over-priced high-end marketed audio. In all my years of interest in audio, only once was a truly blown away by a high-end esoteric brand.

Many years ago, I stopped at a hifi second-hand store, called Play It Again, Sam. idk if they are still in business. They offered resale of used high-end audio gear for a commission.
Every once in a while I'd stop by, just to see audio equip I might never see anywhere else. Equip I could never afford.

This one time I walked in and I was immediately drawn to a pair of flat, slightly convex speakers which were playing at that moment. The midrange and treble was so articulate, that it sounded real, like real instruments playing in that showroom. This is no joke. I have never heard anything sounding so authentically real. The sound was outright beautiful. I was mesmerized.

I believe the speakers were used Dalhlquist, possibly the DQ10s. It was a long.

What struck me so much was their absolute total lack of a box sound. To this day, I really cannot describe them any other way. They did not sound like speakers. They sounded like instruments. It was uncanny.

Those particular speakers were worth whatever they were asking. imo, those Dahlquists were true collector audio, for an audiophile. They were the best sounding pair or speakers I have ever heard, hands down, nothing else comes close.
 

Reli

Boomus Fidelis
Those Realistics were very good value for the money. Their styling isn't very attractive, but I guess you can't have everything.
 

BoomBoxStash

Member (SA)
Those Realistics were very good value for the money. Their styling isn't very attractive, but I guess you can't have everything.
They came out with a nicer looking wood cab version, later on. That one looked good, I thought. I believe it had a removable cloth grill and RS's trademark real wood finish.

Then they introduced a Minimus-11, I believe. It was a similar design, with a larger 5" woofer. It looked beefy and felt solid, like the 7's, but I thought it sounded quite inferior. It featured a tiny bass-reflex port, if I recall correctly. I didn't like the sound at all. I expected much more from it, due to its size and larger driver.

I did not like many of the Realistic or later Optimus speakers. The Minimus 7 and the Mach One were the two I bought and really enjoyed. Tandy Corp was the largest seller of speakers in the world, at one point.

RS gets a bad rap from a lot of misguided internet posts by people who know nothing and just copy and paste.

At their height, imo, they had some excellent audio equip. I can remember walking into a local RS and seeing entire shelves of higher end receivers, amps, decks and turntables. Expensive! Receivers selling for $700. Excellent specs, which compared favorably with Pioneer, Technics, Marantz, etc. Internally, many parts were from Sanyo, Sony and others. Their headphone line was also extensive. Made by Koss.

When hifi began to fade and they went from high fidelity components to selling those CBs, they slowly went down the toilet. RCA bought them out and supposedly lowered their standards.

But it was nice to be able to walk into any RS and buy speaker parts, electronic components, raw speakers.

There was also Lafayette Radio, which disappeared long before RS. And Olson Electronics. I liked shopping Olson's. They sold some crap. But some of their equip and speakers were less expensive than either Lafayette or RS. Man, it's hard to believe there were so many electronic retailers back then. Some real junk and some real good quality. So many big brand names.

Now, I hardly recognize any Chinese equip. Lampoo, Lepai, Wuszi Audio. These are some of the better brands lol.
 

Reli

Boomus Fidelis
What year was this ad from? $199 was only half the price of a top-tier boombox in 1979-1980. That's a pretty damn good deal.

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BoomBoxStash

Member (SA)
What year was this? If it was late 70s, this was only half the price of a top-tier boombox

View attachment 59852
If I recall correctly, this is the original Mach One, which was released for sale around 1976. RS released 3 versions of this speaker over a span of about 8 years.

This original release had the catalog # 40-4024. Supposedly, this is the best and most sought after version. The woofer supposedly featured a rubber-roll cone suspension and a complex 3-way crossover with crossover freqs of 800 and 8,000Hz. The original price was $199 as indicated in your catalog pic.

I never auditioned or actually saw this version. I began looking to buy a pair of speakers a few years later.

The second version is also well sought after. It is catalog 40-2040a. This is the version I owned. I paid $259 each (inflation, I guess).
The 2nd version differed slightly from the original. The cone surround was a thick, wide foam roll, not rubber. The crossover points were changed to 1,200 and 5,000Hz for mid and tweeter.

I very much enjoyed those speakers. Especially when listening to electronic or classical music. A very warm sound. Good bass extension. Very large sound due to the big mid horn. Detailed and articulate. I like the transient response of horns and sealed woofers.

The 3rd version, I think, was an Optimus and not a Realistic any more. But, don't quote me on this. The catalog number was completely different. Unlike its predecessors, it was a bass-reflex rather than a sealed acoustic-suspension. I auditioned them more than once. I thought they sounded awful. The warm balanced tone was gone. So was the tight bass extension. They were just not the same. I am not a fan of bass-reflex. They can sound great or terrible. They can really color the sound.
To my knowledge, this final version is not considered collectible.

Several years ago, during the pandemic, I built a pair of 'retro' Mach One speakers, based on my memory and pics. Rather than buy 40+ year old parts, I went a different route.
The woofer I used is an actual replacement for the Mach One, made by GRS. It looks and feels identical. Sound quality is very similar, as far as I can recall. These replacement Mach One woofers also feature a vented voice coil for reduced heat and compression, which is an improvement. The magnet is large, similar to the original, as far as I can recall. I think the magnet is around 30-35 oz.
I then found a midrange horn lens of similar size to the original, and which has a lip which extends past the cabinet, just like the original. It is a Nippon horn lens. It is also sold under other brand names, fyi. It is bi-radial, which I believe is an improvement over the original Mach One horn. Its horn lip extends further out past the baffle as well. Bi-radials are supposed to deliver better vertical as well as horizontal projection. I honestly don't know if that claim is true. I had a pair of bi-radial horn tweeters, from RS, back in the day and I was not impressed at all lol. But these mid horns sound good, to me.
The mid driver is a Goldwood 1.5" compression type with a phenolic dome, which matches the original driver, almost exactly, down to the bullet phase plug. The magnet is larger, at 20 oz vs 10 oz for the original driver.
For a similar sized tweeter, I used a pair of peerless conical horns. They claim a 25Khz upper response which matches the original tweeter claim. But, the tweeter I used has a die-cast aluminum body and a much larger 20 oz magnet, plus it is ferro-fluid cooled.
I then added a mid and tweeter L-pad, to simulate what the original Mach One offered.
I experimented with a crossover I put together. What finally works is a 12dB/octave crossover at around 2,000 and 8,000 Hz. No crossover for the woofer. According to its spec sheet, the replacement Mach One woofer has a natural rolloff right around 1,400 Hz. The crossover I made for the woofer seemed to affect its output and tone. I prefer it without the crossover.
Cab is 5/8" particle board with a simple vinyl laminate. Eventually, I will get around to covering them in a walnut wood laminate, as was the originals.

I really like their sound. Full bodied, warm and detailed. I listen only in stereo mode.

But, not everyone likes horns. Each type of driver has its own sound or color. I built these because I was always sorry I sold mine. They remind me of a fun time. Nostalgia, you know.
 

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BoomBoxStash

Member (SA)
Yeah I miss stores like that too. Most of them have been driven out of the market by Best Buy. Today most people seem to be comfortable buying speakers sight-unseen, just based on hype or because of the prestigious brand name (especially British or Danish speakers lol)

"The bloggers said it sounds good, so it should sound good in my house as well"
There were so many audio stores, back in the day. Big box stores were only one aspect. I knew dozens of smaller stores which offered nothing but hifi, from budget to esoteric.

imo, Their demise had nothing to do with any competitor, per se. With the coming of the 90's, hifi took a huge step back as other interests became increasingly popular. Personal home computers. Dolby surround sound for home use. Mp3 compressed recordings. And, eventually, the internet.

For me, the 70's and 80's were notably when hifi was king. Hifi began growing way back in the 50's (before my time), expanding and improving, until hifi reached its peak. Manufacturers made excellent products. Quality expectations were high. Boasting better and superior specifications was all the rage.

Then, surround sound, with its audio illusion and booming subwoofer bass effects, hurt hifi. No one cared about specs anymore. People just desired the thrill of sound coming from all around and loud crashes and explosions.
Within a few short years, everyone traded their floor speakers and high fidelity equipment for tiny obscure point-source speakers and a hidden sub. Sound effects replaced high fidelity. That opened the door for every poorly made Chinese audio product. It's a shame. In the 80's, a salesman in a smaller audio store could carry on an intelligent conversation about amplifier attributes, speaker performance, tape decks, turntables, etc. If you walk into a Best Buy, now, you'll be lucky if the salesperson knows how to operate a stereo system.
 

Reli

Boomus Fidelis
Hiphop and electronic music hurt hi-fi too. You don't need great speakers to listen to that stuff. But you do when there are real instruments involved.