It's time to be serious: talking about Newton massacre

Status
Not open for further replies.

Reli

Member (SA)
Dec 24, 2010
6,321
453
83
USA
JVC Floyd said:
there's another way and that is gun buy backs , the police buy back guns from the public and a lot of people are poor or want to get rid of the guns but some are afraid of prosecution usually there is an amnesty so basically they turn in the gun , without being arrested and they get paid a certain amount per gun , i have seen people lined up in the streets turning in guns and walking away with some money for food or whatever but it's amazing how many guns the police can buy in one day , even crack heads sell the guns to buy crack :lol:
I wonder if someone turned in an Uzi, would the cops really let him go, no questions asked :lol:
 

JVC Floyd

Inactive (Delete)
May 6, 2009
7,322
419
83
54
Maryland USA.
Reli said:
JVC Floyd said:
there's another way and that is gun buy backs , the police buy back guns from the public and a lot of people are poor or want to get rid of the guns but some are afraid of prosecution usually there is an amnesty so basically they turn in the gun , without being arrested and they get paid a certain amount per gun , i have seen people lined up in the streets turning in guns and walking away with some money for food or whatever but it's amazing how many guns the police can buy in one day , even crack heads sell the guns to buy crack :lol:
I wonder if someone turned in an Uzi, would the cops really let him go, no questions asked :lol:

well look at it this way , if the police have it then it won't be used again most likely .or they just need the money and the seller either don't want it around anymore or they are afraid to turn it in without going to prison and most likely won't buy anymore because the buy backs don't happen very often so you have to act if you want to rid your self of your guns in a legal way. mind you they don't pay full value for the guns and some are even just donated.
 

THAFUZZ

Member (SA)
May 5, 2009
3,420
35
48
Midwest, USA
Reli said:
JVC Floyd said:
there's another way and that is gun buy backs , the police buy back guns from the public and a lot of people are poor or want to get rid of the guns but some are afraid of prosecution usually there is an amnesty so basically they turn in the gun , without being arrested and they get paid a certain amount per gun , i have seen people lined up in the streets turning in guns and walking away with some money for food or whatever but it's amazing how many guns the police can buy in one day , even crack heads sell the guns to buy crack :lol:
I wonder if someone turned in an Uzi, would the cops really let him go, no questions asked :lol:
"Honestly Officer, I was just walking down the street and found it laying on the ground. Fearing for the public's safety, I decided to turn it in." :angelic:
 

bantytfv

Member (SA)
Jul 26, 2011
243
0
16
59
East TN. USA
I agree that a lot of the problem comes down to a lack of parenting in the modern world. I also got my --ss busted good when I deserved it, and believe me I usually deserved it. A lot of parents take no active interest in their children's upbringing and do seem to take the "let's be friends" approach with them. A recipe for disaster. No more corporal punishment in the schools - we don't want to warp their fragile psyche - even though they go home and play violent video games all evening! :huh: If I got a paddling at school you could bet your bottom dollar I would get the good old belt at home that evening as well - and good. I think I am a better person because my parenr's cared enought to bust my -ss. For Terry in Australia: list of tyrants overthrown? How about King George III of Great Britain in 1781? No offense intended.The use of guns in mass killings has taken place all over the world, not just the U.S. (Bulgaria in the past also)- it appears we get the most media scrutiny as I rarely hear of the one's that take place in other countries. Here is a link to a list of those occurences worldwide just concerning school killing sprees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ra ... _massacres

I find it amazing that China has so many incidents since they have the strictest "gun control" in the world. Private citizens are not allowed to possess firearms (hate to see those poor communist party leaders possibly ousted). Keep in mind that a countries population has to be accounted for in any analysis of crime statistics - the U.S. has much more population tha Bulgaria. Some countries also probably do not like "negative" images concerning such incidents reported broadly and those instances go under reported. If an unstable person want's to do violence on the public it seems that they will generally find a way to do so - no matter how regulated the possesion of weapons is in their country. Gun contol will not work in the U.S. we simply have too many of them, and the right to bear arms is firmly connected with our concepts of liberty and freedom. I also firmly believe the saying that "once guns are outlawed - only criminals will have guns" . Look how well prohibition and the war on drugs has worked. Gun's are made basically for a few things - to injure,kill, frighten. It's that simple. I have wielded one in the defense of my property in the past, and believe me the thugs got the message real quick. I don't think they would have backed off if I had pulled out the old butter knife on them. I was taught the correct use of firearms at an early age and was taught to respect and understand the good or the bad that they could do. They are simply a tool that you hope you never have to use against anyone. Remember Oklahoma City? 9/11? No guns used there, but look how many perished in those attacks. If someone wants to hurt people they will find a way.
I truly believe the lack of parental involvement, lack of discipline, failure to instill a code of values that includes basic respect for other people is leading to a lot of our current problems. If Adam Lanza was known to be mentally unstable, his mother should not have left guns in any way that they could be accessed by him. If the stories in the media are true, it appears he should have been given pshyciatric help a long time ago. Unfortunantly it apears that did not happen. Until more parents step up and start acting like parents and take control of their children, things won't get any better. There have always been 'bad eggs" and unfortunantly there always will be. It is a sad situation all the way around.
 

baddboybill

Member (SA)
Jul 14, 2009
11,092
89
48
55
Hudson Florida
bantytfv said:
I agree that a lot of the problem comes down to a lack of parenting in the modern world. I also got my --ss busted good when I deserved it, and believe me I usually deserved it. A lot of parents take no active interest in their children's upbringing and do seem to take the "let's be friends" approach with them. A recipe for disaster. No more corporal punishment in the schools - we don't want to warp their fragile psyche - even though they go home and play violent video games all evening! :huh: If I got a paddling at school you could bet your bottom dollar I would get the good old belt at home that evening as well - and good. I think I am a better person because my parenr's cared enought to bust my -ss. For Terry in Australia: list of tyrants overthrown? How about King George III of Great Britain in 1781? No offense intended.The use of guns in mass killings has taken place all over the world, not just the U.S. (Bulgaria in the past also)- it appears we get the most media scrutiny as I rarely hear of the one's that take place in other countries. Here is a link to a list of those occurences worldwide just concerning school killing sprees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ra ... _massacres

I find it amazing that China has so many incidents since they have the strictest "gun control" in the world. Private citizens are not allowed to possess firearms (hate to see those poor communist party leaders possibly ousted). Keep in mind that a countries population has to be accounted for in any analysis of crime statistics - the U.S. has much more population tha Bulgaria. Some countries also probably do not like "negative" images concerning such incidents reported broadly and those instances go under reported. If an unstable person want's to do violence on the public it seems that they will generally find a way to do so - no matter how regulated the possesion of weapons is in their country. Gun contol will not work in the U.S. we simply have too many of them, and the right to bear arms is firmly connected with our concepts of liberty and freedom. I also firmly believe the saying that "once guns are outlawed - only criminals will have guns" . Look how well prohibition and the war on drugs has worked. Gun's are made basically for a few things - to injure,kill, frighten. It's that simple. I have wielded one in the defense of my property in the past, and believe me the thugs got the message real quick. I don't think they would have backed off if I had pulled out the old butter knife on them. I was taught the correct use of firearms at an early age and was taught to respect and understand the good or the bad that they could do. They are simply a tool that you hope you never have to use against anyone. Remember Oklahoma City? 9/11? No guns used there, but look how many perished in those attacks. If someone wants to hurt people they will find a way.
I truly believe the lack of parental involvement, lack of discipline, failure to instill a code of values that includes basic respect for other people is leading to a lot of our current problems. If Adam Lanza was known to be mentally unstable, his mother should not have left guns in any way that they could be accessed by him. If the stories in the media are true, it appears he should have been given pshyciatric help a long time ago. Unfortunantly it apears that did not happen. Until more parents step up and start acting like parents and take control of their children, things won't get any better. There have always been 'bad eggs" and unfortunantly there always will be. It is a sad situation all the way around.
:agree: 100%. You are suppose to be a parent before you are a friend. Here is an example and if Jeannie found out she would kill me. The other day she had all three of her kids over. 23, 21 and 16 yrs old...When I moved in I had to put lock on basement door as when her kids and their friends were down there they Fd it all up. Broke all the ceiling tiles, put holes in drywall, made a mess with food,drugs, alcohol etc... So I have my stuff down there and no longer allow them in basement. So Saturday they wanted in basement. We both told them no. Then they threatened to kick in door. Instead of Jeannie "sticking to her guns" (standing firm). She gave in and let them down there. Now when I was a kid, even 23 yrs old. If my parents told me no, then it was NO!!!! These FN kids do what they want, when they want and how they want with no parental respect. Believe me I wanted to slug all three of them. Now my kids 15,12 and 8 yrs old who were over as well said they couldn't believe how Jeannie's kids just threatened us like that. I told my kids if they ever do that to me and I will whip there A$$es like no tomorrow. They promised they would never act like that :thumbsup:
 

baddboybill

Member (SA)
Jul 14, 2009
11,092
89
48
55
Hudson Florida
Fatdog said:
Here's some advice for you, Bill...

[ Image ]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Believe me if they were my kids I would have beat the $hit out of them :yes: But this is what most of the world is coming to with the parents allowing kids to do what ever they want. Jeannie had very strict parents when we were kids so she wanted to do opposite. Unfortunately that don't work. My sister is doing the same with her kids and her oldest at age 6 now hits his parents and other adults. There again... talking to him don't stop him. What he needs is a good old fashion A$$ beating :thumbsup: But my sister won't listen to my mom or I. So when her kids are older she will have nothing but problems. Funny thing is Jeannie notices how my sister just lets her kids walk all over her, and tells me all the time but yet she don't see herself doing the same :no: :no: :no:
 

ClaretBadger

Member (SA)
Nov 15, 2009
1,175
0
0
96
The Lone Star state
www.flickr.com
I don't understand the whole "gun culture" excuse/thing you "Americans" use - you're all most ex patriated europeans - and we've had guns as long as you

We hunted most of out wild animals to extinction mostly BEFORE we "founded/stole" your contitnent - We even turned to Africa when the bounty got thin on our islands - so the hunting excuse is thin also

I don't think you can blame the 200 years since you expelled British rule as being the reason why you cannot relinquish your arms. It's a cultural thing ONLY to the extent that you refuse to drop the 2nd ammendment

Criminals will always get guns - but these stories of massacres are always done by some "quiet" kid - the kid next door - NOT seasoned hardened or opportunist perps.

I am deeply saddened at the two shooting sprees we've had since i've moved to this country

At the very least - can't we agree that automaticweapons and assault rifles have NO place in the public domain - except gun clubs and shooting ranges?

It takes more of a person to phyically aim a weapon and specifically target a human and then reload and do the same than to just "spray" indiscrimately into a bunch of faceless "kids"

As a independent observer in your country - you could do well just to allow 6 shooters and shot guns - I'll grant you them
But the next incident involving a hand cannon - they gotta go too

If you stem the supply - then surely the massacre of innocents will also dwindle OVER time

I really hope something gets done - coz it seems every other night someone gets shot down here in Texas
And I heard the other night a cop unloaded 3 (THREE) clips into a unarmed guy who refused to stop his car - OTT and unacceptable!
 

ea1987

Member (SA)
Jan 19, 2011
116
0
0
Italy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-20765528

This is what had happened few days ago, immediatly after Newton. I defenitly do not agree with guys comparing guns to knife or other "ligh" weapons. Guns, rifle, semi automatic..are more, more, more effective. Yes, of course, a lot of problems can be connected to society problems (violence, games, tv..) but it's not, in my opinion, an acceptable excuse for events like this one.
 

bantytfv

Member (SA)
Jul 26, 2011
243
0
16
59
East TN. USA
The points I brought forth are not excuses, they are things that most americans hold dear as being essential to the existense of a free state. If one thinks that limiting access to a certain type of weapon will keep a crazy person who is determined to get one from getting one they are sadly mistaken. That genie is out of the bottle. A lot of americans see the 2nd amendment as the lynch pin of our freedom (it's a shame the hungarian's did not have a 2nd amendment when the Soviet Union crushed their uprising in the late 60's). What about Tiananmen square in China? It is naive to think that governments are only interested in the welfare of their citizens, a lot of leaders are interested in power and control (see quotes below).Our fundamental rights have slowly been chipped away since our civil war, look at the mountains of federal code and regulations we have. It is the same as what the roman emperors employed - give them bread and circuses and they will be too distracted to notice what is done to them. If the time ever came that you were oppressed enough to have to rebel against your government, what would you rather face off against your military with: a single shot shotgun or rifle or semi-automatic rifle? I know it is hard for non americans to understand, but a lot of americans have a deep rooted distrust of goverment. Our government doesn't go too far because they know we have millions of privately owned weapons to fight back with if the need came. Does a bully pick on someone who will fight back? I wish there was no need for guns at all but that is a fallacy that will never happen. See the quotes below for what wise men had to say on government and guns amd freedom.
It is a long read, but worth it. Remember: at the time these were said it was "modern times" to them also. These do not apply only to americans - they are universal in application. Some truths are self evident. With age and time and understanding comes wisdom.

Quotes on the Second Amendment
The Founding Fathers on the Second Amendment

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Founding Fathers on Arms
"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand arms, like laws, discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as property. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside … Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
Thomas Paine
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
Patrick Henry
American Patriot
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Founding Fathers on Maintaining Freedom
"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. "
Noah Webster
American Lexicographer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion."
Edmund Burke
British Statesman, 1784
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson
to James Madison
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Ben Franklin
American Statesman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Later Quotes on Gun Control
"The ruling class doesn't care about public safety. Having made it very difficult for States and localities to police themselves, having left ordinary citizens with no choice but to protect themselves as best they can, they now try to take our guns away. In fact they blame us and our guns for crime. This is so wrong that it cannot be an honest mistake."
Malcolm Wallop
former U.S. Sen. (R-WY)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"An armed man is a citizen. A disarmed man is a subject."
Anon.
Seen on a bumper sticker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pro Gun Control
"Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
Sara Brady
Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum
The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you wish the sympathy of the broad masses, you must tell them the crudest and most stupid things."

"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
Adolph Hitler
Chancellor, Germany, 1933


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

docs

Member (SA)
Jun 26, 2010
2,558
381
83
52
United Kingdom
I guess you're right...
Us non americans will simply never get it as most of those comments are from a man on the moon, oh wait that wasn't real either :-P
 

docs

Member (SA)
Jun 26, 2010
2,558
381
83
52
United Kingdom
Because with the exception of Hitler (maybe one or two others), which was clearly not a "normal" condition, they are quotes from americans and like you said, non americans just don't get it I'm afraid.
And by the way, since my country have very strict gun laws I feel safe and am not enslaved by any stretch of the imagination.
Lets me just say that upon reading this entire thread, anyone who has posted who lives outside of the US have a very similar viewpoint while those within the US do also and neither are remotely similar. Just an observation.
 

bantytfv

Member (SA)
Jul 26, 2011
243
0
16
59
East TN. USA
Each countries own history will shape it's peoples views. I am glad you feel comfortable with the United Kingdom's laws, however I have had the opportunity to work closely with a few british subjects and they did not agree at all with the United Kingdom's gun control laws. They said that a lot of the criminals will be armed though, and this made them feel at a distinct disadvantage in a bad situation - if it ever occured. They also did not care for the extreme tax burden imposed in your country. Nor did they like the universal health care in the United Kingdom - they said it took way to long to be allowed to see a specialist if needed. Mind you this was their opinions, not mine. And by the way a lot of those quotes were by former british subjects - until they wised up, broke out their muskets, and rebelled. :-)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.