have to agree there Norm lad, unless you're like me and just can't send it back....clearly nick could have sent it back though
Avoid UK eBay user earnoise
- Thread starter docs
- Start date
Hmmm...I get peeved when a box is descibed as fully working, with no mention made of any issues that show up. And pretty much all old boxes have some issues, so I make a point of asking sellers who provide skimpy descriptions. I'm not saying this is you Docs, as obviously I've not seen your description. Looks like Nic really wanted to keep/repair the box, but needed to diagnose it to see if it was possible. I can see both sides. Leaving negative feedback mid way through a conversation would def get my goat up though. Broken gears would probably make me seek a partial refund....but then again only sellers who are box repairers (and bothered to take the unit apart) would have known about the issue in the first place, so.....kind of comes down to the asking price. If it was low/moderate (and the box is repairable) I would definitely suck it up. Plus I enjoy the problem solving part anyway, all part of the fun.
Thinking "well the buyer should understand that these units are 35+ years old and are gonna need some kind of service" is a cop-out IMO. I'm not saying this applies to Doc and Nick's case. I'm just responding to some of the other posts above.
Give buyers a heads up about any potential problems. It's not hard. It's common courtesy.
For example:
"The deck plays tapes but it doesn't seem as fast or as stable as I think it should, so it's possible that it might need service".
"The tuner works, but it can only pick up 3 or 4 stations, while most of my other boxes can pick up 20-25. So perhaps it needs service, or perhaps it's just the way this particular model normally behaves. I don't know."
Give buyers a heads up about any potential problems. It's not hard. It's common courtesy.
For example:
"The deck plays tapes but it doesn't seem as fast or as stable as I think it should, so it's possible that it might need service".
"The tuner works, but it can only pick up 3 or 4 stations, while most of my other boxes can pick up 20-25. So perhaps it needs service, or perhaps it's just the way this particular model normally behaves. I don't know."
I agree with Superduper on this.
Dave clearly said to send the box back for a full refund very early on in the dialogue. You can’t be fairer than that.
To start trying to chip away at the price after and to put the proverbial EBay feedback gun to the sellers head doesn’t sit well with me.
Even worse is to open it and start tinkering whilst still in dialogue to resolve the issue. All this to try and get £20 or so off the price. Dave was selling this on behalf of someone else anyway who might not have wanted to give a refund. No ones getting rich on an old Philips anyway. Seller offered a full refund for the box back...send it back!
After all this I’d rather have bad feedback as a seller on eBay (which might get overturned on appeal after they see the dialogue anyway) than have bad feedback as a buyer on this community.
Dave clearly said to send the box back for a full refund very early on in the dialogue. You can’t be fairer than that.
To start trying to chip away at the price after and to put the proverbial EBay feedback gun to the sellers head doesn’t sit well with me.
Even worse is to open it and start tinkering whilst still in dialogue to resolve the issue. All this to try and get £20 or so off the price. Dave was selling this on behalf of someone else anyway who might not have wanted to give a refund. No ones getting rich on an old Philips anyway. Seller offered a full refund for the box back...send it back!
After all this I’d rather have bad feedback as a seller on eBay (which might get overturned on appeal after they see the dialogue anyway) than have bad feedback as a buyer on this community.
Lol! Wow is all I can say..............
Docs - You KNEW those gear were not only broken but completely missing from the deck! You're a competent & good repair man!!
I am flummoxed as to what many of you are struggling with here......
Rory: No one's getting rich on an old Philips
Yeah you are spot on there - These things are worthless UNLESS the deck is working we ALL know that, so a listing that says "Even the deck is working" could be construed as: Well ,a deck that plays rewinds & fast forwards!! This machine couid NEVER have done that as the 2 intermediate gears that drive the reels in winding mode are MISSING!! No they haven't fallen out as there was a tiny roughly quarter size remains of one of them lodged in the mechanism!!
So there we are: I have to pay even more than the £85 it cost me (Too much but I wanted this model) to now repair it myself......I wonder why I am a little pissed off over it & to learn it was docs that sold it to me makes it even worse - He wouldn't say who he was on eBay & Si I couldn't care less whether you block me or not over a cheap mickey mouse stereo you sold me & I paid twice for because (It never arrived mate) that I suspect you also knew had a bent capstan shaft which is why it wobbled so badly! "Don't worry - I'm not" said Si, instead of "I want you to pay again!!" It's a clear message to anyone here or elsewhere online - Don't mug me off!! Rory never has, Christine & others will confirm I am genuine!!
& Docs: - You quibbled about a miserly SUGGESTED £20 partial refund??? Wtf?? So you think it's ok that a fellow collector now has laid out another £22 for the gears that were missing (& you knew nothing about)??
Seems the forum can certainly be a place to jump on the bashing bandwagon which is a real disappointment & a shame!!
Lastly: Oh I said send it back for a refund (At my Expense AGAIN!!) Guess what?? I wanted this model so why would I send it back?? There have been very few sellers over the years that have sold me a lemon, Every single seller was fair polite & easy to resolve any issues - Perhaps this is why I am saddened by the bandwaggoners here!! Lesson learnt, don't think everyone on eBay will be fair & honest!!
docs, you have clearly made up your mind about me.........Likewise & a shame as I know you are a very keen & a very good engineer where stereo equipment is concerned! We are of the same mind in that respect! I lose money too many times when I sell things, not just boomers either - Keeping people happy is kind of where I am at above financial gain!! If it were the other way round & I knew it was you I would offer it to you for less whether it worked or not & that's what I'm talking about here - Loyalty to those that matter most! (S2Go & BB members specifically)
So there we are..........look out for a write up of the deck rebuild anytime soon & thank you so much to the members here that stepped back & avoided the bandwagon - May there many more transactions between us!
Regards
Nick (earnoise)
The orange gears are from my spares box & sadly the wrong size & new gears are on their way!!
& remember folks: Avoid earnoise!!
Docs - You KNEW those gear were not only broken but completely missing from the deck! You're a competent & good repair man!!
I am flummoxed as to what many of you are struggling with here......
Rory: No one's getting rich on an old Philips
Yeah you are spot on there - These things are worthless UNLESS the deck is working we ALL know that, so a listing that says "Even the deck is working" could be construed as: Well ,a deck that plays rewinds & fast forwards!! This machine couid NEVER have done that as the 2 intermediate gears that drive the reels in winding mode are MISSING!! No they haven't fallen out as there was a tiny roughly quarter size remains of one of them lodged in the mechanism!!So there we are: I have to pay even more than the £85 it cost me (Too much but I wanted this model) to now repair it myself......I wonder why I am a little pissed off over it & to learn it was docs that sold it to me makes it even worse - He wouldn't say who he was on eBay & Si I couldn't care less whether you block me or not over a cheap mickey mouse stereo you sold me & I paid twice for because (It never arrived mate) that I suspect you also knew had a bent capstan shaft which is why it wobbled so badly! "Don't worry - I'm not" said Si, instead of "I want you to pay again!!" It's a clear message to anyone here or elsewhere online - Don't mug me off!! Rory never has, Christine & others will confirm I am genuine!!
& Docs: - You quibbled about a miserly SUGGESTED £20 partial refund??? Wtf?? So you think it's ok that a fellow collector now has laid out another £22 for the gears that were missing (& you knew nothing about)??
Seems the forum can certainly be a place to jump on the bashing bandwagon which is a real disappointment & a shame!!
Lastly: Oh I said send it back for a refund (At my Expense AGAIN!!) Guess what?? I wanted this model so why would I send it back?? There have been very few sellers over the years that have sold me a lemon, Every single seller was fair polite & easy to resolve any issues - Perhaps this is why I am saddened by the bandwaggoners here!! Lesson learnt, don't think everyone on eBay will be fair & honest!!
docs, you have clearly made up your mind about me.........Likewise & a shame as I know you are a very keen & a very good engineer where stereo equipment is concerned! We are of the same mind in that respect! I lose money too many times when I sell things, not just boomers either - Keeping people happy is kind of where I am at above financial gain!! If it were the other way round & I knew it was you I would offer it to you for less whether it worked or not & that's what I'm talking about here - Loyalty to those that matter most! (S2Go & BB members specifically)
So there we are..........look out for a write up of the deck rebuild anytime soon & thank you so much to the members here that stepped back & avoided the bandwagon - May there many more transactions between us!
Regards
Nick (earnoise)
The orange gears are from my spares box & sadly the wrong size & new gears are on their way!!
& remember folks: Avoid earnoise!!
So, Nick is saying the the unit could not FF or RW because the orange gears were missing. But Doc says that he confirmed that the deck did FF and RW before writing the description. Who's not telling the truth? Or could it be both are truthful? One thing to note: Doc never said he opened up the box. He might be selling the unit as-found, as described. If the box was never opened, its probably unreasonable to expect a full internal accounting. I know this, in another year or two, I'll be selling off many, maybe hundreds of boxes. I'm not going to be opening them all up just so I could examine and report on every little internal detail. Someone not entirely familiar with the idiosyncrasies of a particular unit might not even be able to accurately report on such things as these gears that always go bad.
Here's a story for you all... some months back, Reli ordered a grundig boombox from Germany. These units always have bad gears... soft orange ones similar to what I'm seeing here. They apparently never work anymore as these are all broke. This one was represented as deck working, a true rarity. When we received it, the deck did not work -- it couldn't because a belt was broken. Perhaps just the trip from Germany is all it took for the belt to snap, brittle as it was. I did look inside and found that the gears were intact -- a real rarity. So I rebelted it and yes, it did work. At least it worked for all of 3 minutes, then just like all other examples of this model, the gears broke, before I could even complete the speed adjustment procedure. Member trommelmops here helped to make up a gear so we could get this fixed. Did the seller lie? I don't know and I never gave it another thought. We moved on, got the gears fixed and that's the end of it.
In my opinion, buyers should be honest with themselves regarding expectations of these things that are 35 years old. If the model always have broken gears, it's going to be broken or will shortly thereafter be broken. It's the nature of the model. The exception is if a seller represents that the damage prone gears were replaced. Otherwise, no seller should be expected to report on the condition of gears that can't be observed externally. I know I'm not going peek around inside of every box I'm going to sell.
So in this case, did Doc honestly describe the box when writing up the description? He doesn't strike me as the kind to do this sort of thing. Also, Doc said buyer complained about unit being sluggish upon arrival. That suggests that the deck was tried upon receipt and it may have been working at the time. I think at that point, the unit should have been returned had the gears been suspected of being bad. The only question is who pays for return shipping. Nick apparently didn't want to pay it. But you know what? That's eBay policy. We all know and agree to this. Seller pays full refund which includes original shipping cost. Buyer pays return shipping. Both sides lose out on some shipping. Sometimes, sh!t happens. Both sides lose some, that's fair. C'mon, this is 4 decade old stuff we are talking about, it's not Macy's shopping.
Here's a story for you all... some months back, Reli ordered a grundig boombox from Germany. These units always have bad gears... soft orange ones similar to what I'm seeing here. They apparently never work anymore as these are all broke. This one was represented as deck working, a true rarity. When we received it, the deck did not work -- it couldn't because a belt was broken. Perhaps just the trip from Germany is all it took for the belt to snap, brittle as it was. I did look inside and found that the gears were intact -- a real rarity. So I rebelted it and yes, it did work. At least it worked for all of 3 minutes, then just like all other examples of this model, the gears broke, before I could even complete the speed adjustment procedure. Member trommelmops here helped to make up a gear so we could get this fixed. Did the seller lie? I don't know and I never gave it another thought. We moved on, got the gears fixed and that's the end of it.
In my opinion, buyers should be honest with themselves regarding expectations of these things that are 35 years old. If the model always have broken gears, it's going to be broken or will shortly thereafter be broken. It's the nature of the model. The exception is if a seller represents that the damage prone gears were replaced. Otherwise, no seller should be expected to report on the condition of gears that can't be observed externally. I know I'm not going peek around inside of every box I'm going to sell.
So in this case, did Doc honestly describe the box when writing up the description? He doesn't strike me as the kind to do this sort of thing. Also, Doc said buyer complained about unit being sluggish upon arrival. That suggests that the deck was tried upon receipt and it may have been working at the time. I think at that point, the unit should have been returned had the gears been suspected of being bad. The only question is who pays for return shipping. Nick apparently didn't want to pay it. But you know what? That's eBay policy. We all know and agree to this. Seller pays full refund which includes original shipping cost. Buyer pays return shipping. Both sides lose out on some shipping. Sometimes, sh!t happens. Both sides lose some, that's fair. C'mon, this is 4 decade old stuff we are talking about, it's not Macy's shopping.
well said Norm i don't think either party is to blame here...i do think maybe docs could have refunded £20, that way this could have all been avoided, hell if it had been me i would have probably refunded the lot but that's just me
Then goes quiet for 3 days while he proceeds to open it, take the deck apart and remove the gears to then say that the gears were broken, raises a return claim, cancels it after 2 minutes then leaves negative feedback on my account which has been open since 2003 and has 100% positive feedback and with dozens of boombox sales.
Docs - the gears did not exist within this boombox - that's fact! You deceived me knowing that it did not rew/f.fwd, only play worked! Don't you ****ing dare suggest that I removed those 2 gears! You got some front buddy boy! Now I read your o.p. properly, I find you more than offensive & suggest you contact me directly!! You are way out of line here & be grateful I DIDN'T raise the issue with eBay lad!! Don't you dare question my integrity or honesty!! I would still buy from you, I don't believe you intended to deceive me but I don't think for 1 minute that you tested winding function!! Like I said: I have heard only good things about you & your ability to repair stereo's, perhaps you might think about what's happened here!!
earnoise
Docs - the gears did not exist within this boombox - that's fact! You deceived me knowing that it did not rew/f.fwd, only play worked! Don't you ****ing dare suggest that I removed those 2 gears! You got some front buddy boy! Now I read your o.p. properly, I find you more than offensive & suggest you contact me directly!! You are way out of line here & be grateful I DIDN'T raise the issue with eBay lad!! Don't you dare question my integrity or honesty!! I would still buy from you, I don't believe you intended to deceive me but I don't think for 1 minute that you tested winding function!! Like I said: I have heard only good things about you & your ability to repair stereo's, perhaps you might think about what's happened here!!
earnoise
Two sides to every story as they say. 
I think we can all agree that Philips decks really were ****.
Please guys, lets move on.
James...
I think we can all agree that Philips decks really were ****.
Please guys, lets move on.
James...
I’m sorry Nick are you actually accusing me of mugging you off?! I sent you a box that was totally your thing without being paid, I charged you a pittance for it, waited months for payment because you couldn’t use PayPal and had to send cash yet you clearly can use PayPal as you’re buying on eBay. You absolutely would never had paid if I hadn’t reminded you several times. Bent effing capstan?! What, you think i couldn’t fix a bent capstan if I’d been in the box?! I didn’t touch the box as it was a piece of crap no name cheapie, that’s why I knew you’d like it. How ****ing dare you accuse me of mugging you off after I did you a favour
Seemed pretty happy with it when you got it
Seemed pretty happy with it when you got it
James, I would still have bought it working or not & I struggle to u/stand why docs didn't say it was him?? Very secretive & furtive!! I buy from anyone who has something I want!! The philips does play reasonably well & would have been re belted & re geared anyway, belt was tired as docs expected it to be!! I have no issues with anyone & always try to resolve any problems! If docs had offered me £5 I would have accepted in the knowledge from both sides that the deck was not fully working! No hard feelings at all as I said it was already down for a major service as I like this model a lot & new gears & belt are a de-facto requirement!! I lose out here, no one else!! We live & learn......
I have no dog in this fight and have no issues with either member. I will say; it's big of Nick to say he would buy from Dave again, I definitely would too! I personally wait for a complete resolution with a seller before I open a box. Caveat Emptor! Always anticipate the worst and pray for the best when buying things that have to be shipped.
And on a side note, this Yankee enjoys reading the British slang you blokes have been throwing around, although it's too bad it has to be in it's current context.... Brilliant!
And on a side note, this Yankee enjoys reading the British slang you blokes have been throwing around, although it's too bad it has to be in it's current context.... Brilliant!
Well I know who I believe and trust and it’s not the person who just called me a liar in a pm.. unbelievable
I do him a favour, he doesn’t pay, and I’m the bad guy? Delusional
I do him a favour, he doesn’t pay, and I’m the bad guy? Delusional
nick dont worry man ! people on here know your sound mate there is always one idiot out there that has to try it on !docs said:
I’m sorry but you’ve been here 5 minutes, you know nothing of Dave or meTechnicsDan82 said:
I’m sorry but you’ve been here 5 minutes, you know nothing of Dave or meNortherner said:
nick is sound ! give him a brake man sounds like a bitch fight to me no matter how long iv been on here !
i used to be a drama queen si lad but the fact is, i hate drama and im finding this whole thread quite upsettingNortherner said:Reno...the voice of diplomacy and moderation