Stereo LED lighting up dim

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caution

Member (SA)
I can send you one if you want, I have one I'm sure of it.
But if you have a dead box you could always pull a ceramic, poly or mylar cap off that and use it, as long as you can find one that says 1000 on it (letter at the end doesn't matter, it's just a tolerance value). But this value is picofarads, not microfarads, so it's actually a .001uF cap. It's also printed as 102 on them (10 + 2 more zeroes).

Poly film and mylars look like this

s-l300.jpg
ECQ.jpg
 

caution

Member (SA)
In the mail! Should be there Saturday or Monday
There's some wax on it from the radio circuit it was in, I didn't test it with a meter but it should be fine
37766730352_6b80ea65b6_b.jpg
 

baddboybill

Boomus Fidelis
Superduper said:
It needs to be polystyrene.
Oh great

caution said:
In the mail! Should be there Saturday or Monday
There's some wax on it from the radio circuit it was in, I didn't test it with a meter but it should be fine
37766730352_6b80ea65b6_b.jpg
Very cool Eric is that same one as mine? You have my address cuz I’m in Florida now?

Thank you bro
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
Bill, did you test that cap in circuit before removing it? In general, if you are testing a capacitor with an ohmmeter, then I presume you are checking to see if it's shorted, because that is the only meaningful test really for a cap of such low value, and tested in circuit, a short will definitely be obvious. The only other thing that you can check with an ohmmeter on larger electrolytics is to see if the value counts up before going to infinity. That is the cap ramping up it's charge as you supply current from the meter. However aside from demonstrating that the cap is charging, it's hardly an exacting test. On such small values as these, the charge is so small that it ramps up almost immediately, probably faster than the DMM could even register. Anyhow, next time you see a styrol (polypropylene) cap in a tuner -- I highly suggest that you DO NOT randomly remove it for testing. IN GENERAL, they hardly ever fail. The MPX decoder fails far more readily. I would say 100, perhaps 1000 MPX decoders will fail before one of those caps fail. On the other hand, if there is 1 capacitor that is heat sensitive enough to be easily damaged through the soldering/desoldering process -- it would be the styrols. You should probably heatsink the leads before removing and installing. Once it's been removed, there's no way to know for certain if it failed due to the soldering. Circuits that use styrols only do so because the circuit is highly sensitive and in tuners, especially tuned circuits that require stability, styrols are the way to go. Not only do they have far better tolerances but they also are very stable temperature wise. Value drift is something you do not want in a tuner. Let's hope this fixes your problem and if it does, you lucked out in that #1, you found a defective cap that hardly ever goes bad and #2, you hopefully didn't throw your tuner out of alignment. There may be other reasons for a stereo indicator light to not illuminate but you really need to study the circuit better to understand how it's being lit. Is the MPX decoder chip doing the actual sinking/driving of the led? You can tell by simply finding the MPX decoder chip and studying the datasheet. Or does your circuit even utilize a MPX decoder chip? Or does the indicator LED require external drivers (transistors?). Obviously, if those are bad or not working properly (bad transistor is exponentially more likely than a bad styrol), then the LED will not light. For example, the GEN3998A uses transistors to drive the tune/stereo indicators. Although not unheard of, it is far far less common than circuits normally found in boomboxes. If this still does not fix your problem, you might want to take good photos of the area top and bottom and maybe Eric can help you attempt to draw out a small schematic of the relevant circuitry and see how the LED is actually "driven." Just my 2-cents.
 

baddboybill

Boomus Fidelis
Thank you Norm and funny thing is I replaced 1 resistor that was burned and resoldered a leg from a jump lead that looked like it may have never even been soldered in first place. Then I replaced the 19k variable resistor with 5k and hooked up to test it. Tried adjusting resistor and nothing happened at first but then somehow while adjusting it I went to hard past the stop point on it and all of a sudden stereo came in and led on. But then I tried centering it and went to change stations and the stereo was in but led stayed on whole time. Then I turned of radio and put back on and no stereo or led. Then I moved vr again and it came back on. Went through it again with same results. Then soldered another new vr in and nothing. So not sure what to think but that’s when I checked another resistor and the polypropylene cap. Resistor was fine but cap had nothing. This was after I took them out.

Also Norm since you posted I decided to put cap back in and test radio with same exact reaction so I’m still stuck. Here are pics of the area both front and backA10B6269-A84C-4305-A989-6F4FC9F4E46B.jpeg1AF37417-90F3-4779-9975-63AA7A1D96E0.jpeg74F73CCA-3E93-4E0C-9C1A-92817B99E305.jpeg

Arrow is where lead is for stereo led, 2nd lead from left9D026C96-32F7-4017-9E5D-41E2ABAC79B2.jpeg

Yellow arrow was bad resistor I replaced and green arrow was the jump lead that was only 1 leg soldered in.6BC7B2AC-9D3F-42AB-974C-71457E9C5EC0.jpeg
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
If the cap is bad, then it's bad so reinstalling won't fix anything. However, to be clear, when you tested the cap, you tested it in OHM mode and you got "0" or did you get infinity, no reading - - - - or something like that? You wouldn't be the first to make that mistake but zero is "0" and nothing (like as if nothing was connected) is not nothing, it is infinity. Zero is definitely shorted but most meters will almost never read zero. It would be more like 0.2 or some other low number. Even the leads have resistance so unless you rel out the built in resistance, you almost never get a true zero reading. Now, if you were getting no reading, then that's not necessarily indicating a bad cap. It might be perfectly fine. That's not how you test a low value cap.

As for your circuit, we can now see that your circuit indeed uses an MPX decoder chip, a Sanyo LA3361 (common chip). This is why you should always post extra details whenever possible so as not to waste time for others guessing. Here is block diagram of that decoder.


la3361-block.png

If you look carefully at the 1000p cap, which I presume is the one you removed, it has a caution sign next to it indicating that exact replacement is required. It states polyester but whatever was in there should be replaced with exact part. Mica, tantalum, ceramic, electrolytic, etc definitely shouldn't be used. Also look carefully and see that one leg is connected internally to the MPX decoders VCO (voltage controlled oscillator). This for sure requires a critical stable circuit. Also note that the is cap is connected to ground on the other leg creating a parallel circuit to the resistors. IF it were indeed shorted, that means that leg#16 would be grounded and no amount of adjusting of the resistors would have any effect. If that cap is truly shorted, you can certainly check now whether pin #16 is grounded with the cap in place. If yes, then the cap is definitely bad. If however you are getting some reading, say something between 6.8k and 16.8k, then the cap is likely fine or certainly not shorted.

Here is the sample circuit diagram. I am guessing that it should mirror your circuit quite closely.

la3361_sample_circuit.png

I suggest you compare the circuit to yours and see if your resistance network to pin 16 is working properly. In other words, check and verify that pin 16 to ground with an ohmmeter (radio powered off) reads a range consistent with the series resistors you have installed. The circuit is calling for 5k VR with a 9.1k fixed resistor, OR 10k VR with a 6.8k fixed resistor.

Also check out the notes regarding pin 9. According to notes, in stereo mode, should read less than 0.7v (or off). In mono, it should be between 0.7v and 2.1v. It sounds like the VCO will turn off if voltage exceeds 2.1v. It's worth confirming those numbers.
 

baddboybill

Boomus Fidelis
Ohms set to 200k on meter Pin 16 to ground I get 9.5 reading. Board is out of unit so to test pin 9 I will do later after work.

Any other tests I need to do Norm?
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
baddboybill said:
Using 20k on my meter my reading is 9.58k
You need to be sure and maybe understand your meter better. 9.58k is within the normal range with the trimpot near the low extreme. If 9.58k, there is no way that the cap is shorted since it’s a parallel circuit to ground with that resistor network which would read virtual zero if that were the case.

baddboybill said:
While powered up I get on both stereo and mono 5.71v as well on pin 9
The data sheet only shows the snippet relevant to this circuit. Without the full schematic, it’s unclear what’s happening on the circuit connected to pin 9. Maybe the issue is downstream. Try this, disconnect pin 9 by removing solder from the pad, either with a sucker or wicking with desoldering braid & liquid rosin (flux) & see if it makes a difference with pin 9 out of circuit?
 

baddboybill

Boomus Fidelis
Superduper said:
Using 20k on my meter my reading is 9.58k
You need to be sure and maybe understand your meter better. 9.58k is within the normal range with the trimpot near the low extreme. If 9.58k, there is no way that the cap is shorted since it’s a parallel circuit to ground with that resistor network which would read virtual zero if that were the case.

baddboybill said:
While powered up I get on both stereo and mono 5.71v as well on pin 9
The data sheet only shows the snippet relevant to this circuit. Without the full schematic, it’s unclear what’s happening on the circuit connected to pin 9. Maybe the issue is downstream. Try this, disconnect pin 9 by removing solder from the pad, either with a sucker or wicking with desoldering braid & liquid rosin (flux) & see if it makes a difference with pin 9 out of circuit?
So the test I performed on pin 9 I did while hooked up and powered on. So you want me to remove solder from pin 9 and test fm stereo?
 

baddboybill

Boomus Fidelis
Pin 9 leads to the resistor I replaced that was bad and then to the band switch

It’s a 22k and it had been blown so I replaced it with used so maybe it’s no good cuz I never tested it.7E651327-A823-4B02-A673-45681B4ABFE4.jpegA24A0D73-CAF1-4240-9D49-8AEA6D281C5A.jpeg75255E61-3FD8-4E13-8BD4-3BCAD1224DE8.jpeg
 
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