Help For The Ignorant Needed With Speaker Selection!

[MyOhMy]

High sensitivity is the key, not the ohms rating. All of the above brands mentioned (except for Sony) only produce 8 ohm bookshelf speakers - you will find most also boast sensitivity ratings below 90dB. 8 ohm resistance is the standard for HiFi speakers. Most amps won't run 4 ohm speakers without increasing the risk of damage. Some of the high end models with their huge power supplies and heatsinks will run 4 ohm speakers no problem, however, your Pioneer amp isn't one of them.

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But you ask, why does it have a switch on the back for 4 ohm speakers if it can't run them safely? Well the answer is that by switching your amp into 4 ohm mode, you are actually hobbling the amps' output power to reduce excessive strain on the amp when you connect low resistance speakers.

So 8 ohm, high sensitivity speakers are the way to go.

Happy speaker hunting.

James....

There's a switch? I don't see a switch. It just says that if you're using A + B speakers, they should be 8 ohms or more, but if you're only using 2 speakers, you can use 4 ohms or more.

Thanks, Chaps - I think I'm still in pre head spinning mode although I think I can see some testing times ahead judging by the depth of info (for ME ) that come to light.
Here's a pic of the Amp's Speaker Selection switch which probably fits in with what you're both saying and thanks for the explanations, I understood these.

I've tried to sort the 'So Far' list into an order of importance so I've given the Sensitivity rating the highest priority. A Sensitivity rating is a new thing to me, I'd never heard of such a thing, Nope. No Siree, not me. I feel I there's little else to add to the comments so far as all this info you Guys have imparted will be the best help I can hope for. Thanks Guys!


So, now this is my guide:
Sensitivity rating: At least 90
4/6/8 ohms, lowest possible best, Sensitivity (90 min) availability may influence ohms option?
Brands: Polk, Klipsch, Sony, Boston Acoustics, etc..(established brands)
No foam surrounds on woofer.
Bookshelf style, around 11-12" tall is a likely size.
Woofer Size: 5" (+/-1") woofer is usual for the physical speaker size.
Rear facing bass ports for increased Bass effect.
2-Way
$200 (or less?), a good brand & new may cost more.

 

[ford93]

No problem and good luck on your hunt!

Please post a pic. of your system with the speakers.

One thing on the bass port and I do agree that if they were facing from the rear you'll get more deep bass, but these Polk that I own sound good and I listen to Soulful House music and I'm happy.

 

[MyOhMy]

Thanks, ford93. If you noticed my little priority list, I'd relegated the rear ports somewhat as I have to consider the close proximity of my neighbours whenever I think about improving the Bass, Having said this, I could always go for 2 sets of speakers: one with ports at the rear and one pair with front ports connected to 'A' & 'B' terminals respectively. As soon as my neighbours are out the door then that'll be it - time for more Volume & Bass at the turn of a switch!

 

[ford93]

This should help you.

Check it:

http://www.consumertop.com/best-bookshelf-speakers/

The Definitive's looks to be good speakers.

 

[MyOhMy]

Thanks for the link, ford93. Those 'Top 10' type list sure do make life easy sometimes. I just need to satisfy myself that the chosen speakers are suitable for the system - hence starting this thread, trying to remember as much as the advice as I possibly can, eventually leading to your latest reply.

The link also threw in info and descriptions on the areas of: Frequency Response/Range, Impedance, Hertz, Watts, Decibels & Voltage Sensitivity along with some other phrases unfamiliar to me which is all relevant and very interesting but starts to get a bit too much for me, I'm in danger from information overflow. Memory problems from PTSD are really starting to hinder me now with this much information so I need to work with what I've got so far otherwise I'll be at risk of being caught in a complete circle-jerk.

I appreciate all the help that got me to my shortlist of specifications to look for and ford93's interesting 'Top 10' but I'm going to leave it at that.

As a short term measure I'm using a pair of speakers from an inexpensive Philips 3-in-1 stereo unit that are 3-Way/6 Ohms and that's all I can tell you about them. At the risk of sounding even more ignorant of all things technical, I don't know if these speakers suit/match the Amplifier or not, all I know if the sound comes out of the speakers!

Thanks, everyone, I let you know how I get on in due course, maybe even throwing my choice(s) at you for comment.

 

[ford93]

I'm pretty sure with all the other advice from other members including mine should help you. I think you have almost gotten the complete knowledge on speakers.

I know the feeling of being overloaded with information, especially in the world of electronics.

So again good hunting that's the fun part!

 

[Ambience]

"I live in a semi-detached bungalow with the neighbour's (partially deaf ) living room adjacent to mine although I do have the opportunity for blasting out on occasion if I need."

This sentence has made my day.

Naturally, being American, I tend to have Hyacinth's voice from Keeping Up Appearances in my head while reading your posts, and to read something like "I do have the opportunity for blasting out on occasion if I need" in Hyacinth's voice is just brilliant. I mean, I just love the fact that this site/community has people from all over and all types of backgrounds.

Now onto your topic, this was actually something I was thinking about myself after I got a cool JVC tape deck. Originally, I had been using my Panasonic boombox as the output for my record player, looked cool and saved some space (somewhat). I had it on a kitchen counter in the corner, the bass output was pretty good with the above cabinets and corner. Upon getting said tape deck, and an entrance table with the intention of moving the record player out of the kitchen. I wanted to get some speakers, but like yourself, wasn't sure what to get. As a temporary solution, I ended up using the boombox as the output for both the tape deck and record player. The Panasonic's tape player has issues unfortunately, hence the reason for purchase of the JVC to begin with.

Naturally, the bass output of the Panasonic suffered immensely when moved out of it's little corner. The solution? I used the "Output" of the boombox to an older smaller Yamaha sub-woofer that purchased second hand a few years ago fairly cheap. I'm not sure how the "Output" connections work on other boxes, but this Panasonic gives a fixed output, the volume knob has no effect on whatever the output source is, while still retaining the output and controls to it's own speakers. And luckily, this Yamaha woofer let's me fine tune it volume and cutoff to whatever I'd like, so it works out perfectly.

So, I have the record player, connected to the JVC tape deck, which is connected to the boombox, which is connected to a sub-woofer. How does it sound? Not bad actually, in fact I love it, and it's a pretty unique setup that most people probably wouldn't expect. Maybe not the ideal setup, but I figured I'd give the idea or maybe at least a temporary solution.

 

[MyOhMy]

Thanks for making me smile this evening, Ambience! I love Hyacinth in 'Keeping Up Appearances', it's my kind of gentle comedy. I live in a setting of 22 bungalows whereby old folk are put out to grass until they curl their toes. Believe it not, I'm well over 60 and the youngest kid on the block and it's not really worth getting to know too many people as they seem to disappear too often, never to be seen again!

Anyway.....................

That's an interesting story and work-around with the BB & Yamaha, well done. When I bought this Hi-Fi I wasn't really expecting much as the advertisement was pretty poor and all I wanted was a semi decent Turntable for my Sharp GF-9000. Once I'd brought the Tuner/Amp & Cassette Deck home it was only then I realised what I'd actually got my hands on. £108 was the total outlay, not too bad a price for all three units.

 

[duckman]

Hey Christine, hope not too late chiming in here.

Not discounting any of the previous posts here, as I have a set of similar Polks and Infinity Primus series speakers which I love, but I am also in the camp with Jimmy as far as considering older speakers as there are plenty out there that are standing the test of time, especially since you live in loud speaker Nirvana . Sooo many great British speakers (and their bastard cousins, lol of which I have had/heard a lot of ) to choose from and the fact that most Brits tend to want things in good to perfect nick with their gear (an observation over 20 years and a comment from an older gent form London I used to deal with), so good deals can be had for sure, as you stated that that was not necessarily an issue to you. That and there are parts more or less always available if need be as there are tons still out there.

Case in point, this set of Celestions: http://www.orangedove.co.uk/celestion-ditton-15xr-n322.html These Celestions match up very well with Pioneer receivers of that era and the overall sound stage presented is much larger than the smallish bookshelves of today, though those Polks and Ininitys have a brighter more dynamic mid-high end presentation. They also go down to 30hz with the passive radiator, so not really a need for a second set in a 200 sq ft or so room. The other mentioned here get to about 50-55hz, and for that price a no brainer.

This set of Castle is only about an hour and a half drive from you and you could maybe sell off the stands,lol: Ebay item 142018600473

These smaller Pioneer receivers, and I have had many over the years including the SX-450, are prone to blowing speaker outputs so keeping higher impedance speakers in the equation, and shying away from 4 or lower if you are going to crank it occasionally, would be prudent.

Most people do not realize that 3-5 watts continuous output into efficient speakers is generally reasonable adult party level (not the blaster types tho ) where you are having to raise your voice in conversations and can also annoy neighbors depending on building you are in. Dinner/background music would be much less that that in most cases so your unit will/should provide adequate power for your needs

Some other names to consider would be KEF (basically anything with the B200 woofer/T27 tweeter compliment) , Celef and Tangent, which do use some of the same drivers along with Audax drivers from France, another great sounding compliment of parts. Mission, Castle and some lower end Tannoys like the Mercury may fit the bill also. IMF and Dalesford also come to mind along with Wharfedale, though they tend not to have the best bass output for the most part in their vintage bookshelf units but very detailed mids-highs.

As I mentioned previously in the 'bastard cousins' comment , many of the British made units share many common drivers and parts that have stood the test of time though most could use a crossover upgrade for optimum performance and replacing caps in speakers is something you have definitely the capability of handing. Cabinet designs will look very similar also, but they are generally very heavy well constructed units.

All that, and there are plenty out in your market .

Short list, lol
Celestion : Ditton 15 XR, Ditton 22, and DL6 which are newer but one of the best of their day
KEF : Cresta, Corelli and soo many others, check out KEF Museum.
Tangent : TM1 , SPL 3 & 5
Wharfedale : E30, Delta 50 or 30.

Newer gear:
Paradigm (got to get the Canuck input in, lol) 3se or 5se
Infinty Primus series for sure in newer stuff and Polk Monitor 5 for examples.


Anyhoo, just some more fodder to mess ya up on your search and I wish you luck and great listening in the future!

Cheers,

Alan

 

[MyOhMy]

Many thanks for the thoughtful and considerate reply, my gratitude knows no bounds, duckman (reply sent to your most welcome PM). Seriously, I was very naïve in my thinking when made my initial post, I never thought the realms of speakerology were so involved and complicated but I'm definitely making good progress with all the info you guys have given.

After spending many hours over the last few days looking for and at speakers, I've concluded that I haven't been living in an Age Of Enlightenment with regard to speakers or that I needed an 'ology' just to choose a pair of speakers. There is a far greater range of speakers types & specifications than I ever imagined and that there seems to be more brands than people on the planet.

My search continues but is drawing to a conclusion as I'm armed with more details than ever so, again, many thanks Guys.

 

[MyOhMy]

I've now narrowed my search down to a small amount & range of speakers but, before I continue, I'd like to invite your comments on this particular pair of speakers. The spec seems (to me!) to be pretty close or even a fairly good match but this particular pair of speakers look so different from all the others I've seen with regard to the tweeters: The spec says they are present but, for the life of me, I can't see them - unless they're disguised as dust caps.

Has anyone any experience of these particular speakers? Aside from the spec, especially the 90db (minimum) Sensitivity I'm looking for, these speaker cabinets - wait for it......................................will match my light oak furniture. Don't laugh, Guys, it's just that a light oak finish to the cabinet would be nice bonus for me although not a deal breaker.

Link: KEF Q 60 Speakers SP3136

 

[T-STER]

Kefs are awesome in general, I downgraded my speakers recently from huge Kefs (similar to the ones your looking at actually but a couple sizes bigger) with the UniQ thing to a small set of bookshelfs and they are still awesome.

Kefs UniQ thing means the tweeters are mounted inside the centre of the woofer. Groovy.

I don't think you'll go wrong with them but make sure your amp has bass/treble controls as all Kefs in that range are pretty bass heavy i have found. Which is nice.

Go get em Mom!

 

[ford93]

Those oak KEFs would look nice with your silver face system. Looks like in the specs. section they will do the job.

For some reason Polk speakers are 89db I guess they do it for a reason not sure though, but they do sound very well balanced. Again I listen to Jazz, House music and Rock and these puppies do their job.

Good luck with the KEFs and post a pic. once you have it set up and give us a feedback on how they perform.

 

[MyOhMy]

Kefs are awesome in general, I downgraded my speakers recently from huge Kefs (similar to the ones your looking at actually but a couple sizes bigger) with the UniQ thing to a small set of bookshelfs and they are still awesome.

Kefs UniQ thing means the tweeters are mounted inside the centre of the woofer. Groovy.

I don't think you'll go wrong with them but make sure your amp has bass/treble controls as all Kefs in that range are pretty bass heavy i have found. Which is nice.

Go get em Mom!

Thanks, T-STER. I had a pair of KEF speakers in the '70's for my Pioneer & Sony system, I still remember how good they sounded - but not the speaker model #'s as too much time has passed. Thanks for enlightening me on the Tweeter issue with these speakers - I thought I was losing the plot! . The Pioneer SX-450 Amplifier does indeed have separate Bass & Treble controls.

Those oak KEFs would look nice with your silver face system. Looks like in the specs. section they will do the job.

For some reason Polk speakers are 89db I guess they do it for a reason not sure though, but they do sound very well balanced. Again I listen to Jazz, House music and Rock and these puppies do their job.

Good luck with the KEFs and post a pic. once you have it set up and give us a feedback on how they perform.

Thanks for your input, ford93, it's very much appreciated. I'm giving some very serious consideration to bidding on these speakers and I probably will although I have a few other speakers on my short list. Just to compound the issue (bear with me on this) I saw these Celestion Ditton 15 speakers on eBay last night so I leapt in there rather swiftly and bought them for £99.00 incl. P+P as these had been recommended (along with other brands). I felt I had to act rather quickly because there were others listed at far higher prices, one pair (if I remember correctly) having an asking price of £225.00. I have a feeling that what these speakers may deliver will be beyond my needs but didn't.t want to miss this opportunity to find out - despite the fact that these particular speakers rate highly in the Ugly Stakes once the covers are removed!

To further compound the issue, there is another set with a £25.00 starting price (also on eBay) although the single picture in the listing as well as the description leave a lot to be desired as they are both very basic: "Pair of celestion 15 speakers, front covers good but badges missing." This particular pair are 'collect only' but only a very short drive away which should minimise bidding competition. Yes, I know I've just bought a pair but, if they fit the bill, I'd hate to miss a bargain even though this second pair represent a bit of a gamble. I'll see.

I've also seen these Klipsch RB-61 II bookshelf speakers on eBay (Italy) and, no, I'm not restricting my search to eBay! I like the look and (of what little I understand of) the spec on these so I'm not ruling these out just yet. If anyone has any comments to make on these speakers I'd look forward to reading them.

The Rate I'm going I'll have a house full of speakers! When the first Celestion Ditton 15 speakers arrive in a few days I'll be in a good position to consider my next move although I think I would have bought the KEF Q 60 Speakers SP3136 by the end of today anyway.

Finally, if there is a UK member who'd like to get their hands on the £20.00 (so far) pair of Celestion Ditton 15 speakers and would like me to play the part of Collector & Postie Extraordinaire just let me know and I'll happily take care of this for you.

I think that's all for now.

Thanks, Guys!

 

[duckman]

T-ster is right, the bigger ones do have quite good bass, as I heard the Q80's last year, so the bookers should fit nicely in your rom. Many great reviews online also.

The single driver design with the tweeter in the center offers very good stereo imaging (close your eyes and you can imagine seeing where the instruments are placed on stage, per say) and design has been around for decades with big names such as Tannoy, Altec and JBL using over the years.

Anyhoo, a good choice, they are a reasonable size/weight to work with also, and let us know your final set up.

Cheers

 

[MyOhMy]

T-ster is right, the bigger ones do have quite have good bass, as I heard the Q80's last year, so the bookers should fit nicely in your rom. Many great reviews online also.

The single driver design with the tweeter in the center offers very good stereo imaging (close your eyes and you can imagine seeing where the instruments are placed on stage, per say) and design has been around for decades with big names such as Tannoy, Altec and JBL using over the years.

Anyhoo, a good choice, they are a reasonable size/weight to work with also, and let us know your final set up.

Cheers

Thanks once again, duckman, what you said says it all really. If I can 'be there' when listening to fantastic reproduction of the music then I couldn't ask for anymore.

 

[Reli]

MyOhMy, on 11 Jun 2016 - 2:18 PM, said:

I've now narrowed my search down to a small amount & range of speakers but, before I continue, I'd like to invite your comments on this particular pair of speakers. The spec seems (to me!) to be pretty close or even a fairly good match but this particular pair of speakers look so different from all the others I've seen with regard to the tweeters: The spec says they are present but, for the life of me, I can't see them - unless they're disguised as dust caps.

Has anyone any experience of these particular speakers? Aside from the spec, especially the 90db (minimum) Sensitivity I'm looking for, these speaker cabinets - wait for it......................................will match my light oak furniture. Don't laugh, Guys, it's just that a light oak finish to the cabinet would be nice bonus for me although not a deal breaker.

Link: KEF Q 60 Speakers SP3136

19 inches tall? Wow, seems kinda overkill for a kitchen shelf. But as long as you've got the room for it.

 

[MyOhMy]

19 inches tall? Wow, seems kinda overkill for a kitchen shelf. But as long as you've got the room for it.

I think, perhaps, they will be a little large for my needs but they will eventually be sitting on purpose built shelving either side of a chimney breast in my living room. The alcoves are wide & deep therefore will increase the distance to my ears and, while they're quite large (physically) the music reproduction quality is my primary concern.

BTW, I'm not averse to pretty loud music in my decent sized kitchen either - it has been known after a tipple or two!

 

[MyOhMy]

These are the Celestion Ditton 15 speakers I bought:


I think there may be a foam circle missing? Would I be correct in thinking the
purpose of the foam ring is to maintain the gap to the speaker cloth?


There is, however of damage to one of the Terminal Plates that occurred in transit:


Removing the Terminal Plate assembly, complete with Crossover, resulted in the plastic plate falling apart into several bits. Until a replacement part was sent I decided to see what I could do in regard to repairing the damage. I wasn't overly concerned about appearance but needed a strong & robust repair as the whole assembly is quite heavy with the weighty Crossover adding stress to the Plate. Here's the tale of the sorry looking Plate being stuck together, reinforced with a bespoke circular patch/plate located under the metal label and then reassembled:








The replacement Terminal Plate arrived - complete with a whole new crossover attached and
I hope to find time to replace the damaged parts with this replacement tomorrow:

 

[Ambience]

Wow these are a lot larger than I was expecting you to go with. They looks awesome though. And they're made in England!

I've never seen anything like that foam speaker circle thing.

Smart work on the repair by using a patch as well.