By Passing & Adding a New Amp Question

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Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
Is it possible to remove the amp chip, take the signal that was going into the amp chip and route that to the input of a whole new amplifier and then to the speakers?

If not, where would be the best place to break the chain and send the signal to the new amp?
 

floyd

Boomus Fidelis
easiest way to do it would be to add a line level converter that connects to the speaker output wires and use the rca signal to the new amp. or get an amp that has high level inputs were you just plug the speaker wires directly into the amp for the signal, this way whatever passes through the speakers passes through the amp.
 

k2j

Member (SA)
JVC Floyd said:
easiest way to do it would be to add a line level converter that connects to the speaker output wires and use the rca signal to the new amp. or get an amp that has high level inputs were you just plug the speaker wires directly into the amp for the signal, this way whatever passes through the speakers passes through the amp.
Do you mean connect the line-out signal to the new amp (not the speaker out signal)? :hmmm:
 

floyd

Boomus Fidelis
an amp with high level inputs allows you to connect the speaker output wires from the boombox directly to the high input signal terminals of the amp. if you use a line level converter this allows you to connect the speaker output wires to the converter box and on the other side are rca jacks that you can plug into the line in of the amp.
 

blu_fuz

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I was trying to do the same thing to my Dynasty Wheely. I have the super-duper amp kit and stinger high-to-low speaker signal converter.

At first I was going to signal trace the low level to the original amp chip and tap in there. While tracing signal somehow I ended up frying the amp chip :bang:.


After fixing that and talking to Norm he said I should just use the stinger signal converter and tap into the speaker wires and go from there.
 

AE_Stereo

Member (SA)
Simply you can tap audio from the volume control pot terminals; between the ground and the variable output terminals.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
JVC Floyd said:
easiest way to do it would be to add a line level converter that connects to the speaker output wires and use the rca signal to the new amp. or get an amp that has high level inputs were you just plug the speaker wires directly into the amp for the signal, this way whatever passes through the speakers passes through the amp.
That's what I did with the Louder Blaster project, Norm made me an interface, but I wasn't happy with it. It's noisy, sound quality was so so.

I was hoping to pull a clean signal off the main board and send it to the new amp, just like the old amp would get.


AE_Stereo said:
Simply you can tap audio from the volume control pot terminals; between the ground and the variable output terminals.
That's interesting :hmmm:
What do you think of that idea Floyd?
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
JVC Floyd said:
if you can do it go for it . might work out much better .
It seems like it would make sense right.....

So, it goes like this right....
The signal comes from it's source, through the switching bridge that determines tape, radio, aux, ect.
It then goes to the volume knob? Then to the amp?

If so, I then catch it before or after the volume knob? After right?

Then the signal goes to the new amp low in and out to the speakers.

Is that it right?
 

floyd

Boomus Fidelis
chris you want to tap into the volume pot after the signal passes through it because then any signal gain from the volume pot will automatically pass through the amp allowing you to turn the volume of the amp up and down the same way as was before.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
JVC Floyd said:
chris you want to tap into the volume pot after the signal passes through it because then any signal gain from the volume pot will automatically pass through the amp allowing you to turn the volume of the amp up and down the same way as was before.
OK....this seems so easy, what are we missing here?

So, I just interrupt the signal from the volume pot to the OG amp chip sending it to the new amp.

PRESTO 500W BOOMBOX!

What's the problem here? (other than powering the new amp :-D )
 

k2j

Member (SA)
I wonder if it depends on the particular blaster if the signal is passed through the shaping part (bass treble) before or after the volume pot. Or if its common to do the signal filtering (bass treble) before it hits the volume knob. You want to be able to make all those adjustments including balance too.

Good thread Chris.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
k2j said:
I wonder if it depends on the particular blaster if the signal is passed through the shaping part (bass treble) before or after the volume pot. Or if its common to do the signal filtering (bass treble) before it hits the volume knob. You want to be able to make all those adjustments including balance too.

Good thread Chris.
Another interesting point! Absolutely MUST be able to make those adjustments.
 

AE_Stereo

Member (SA)
The volume control pot used to be the last link before feeding to the Amp chips. You can trace this in a schematic or block diagram of the deck, if you have one. Means all tone controls and Balance will be active on the signal coming out.

Now, the reverse also will work. Audio signal can be fed to any radio/tape recorder through the volume pot terminals (I mean the old-world ones with a volume pot). Even into a pocket radio!
I have done this successfully in decks with only Phono-in to feed Line-out level signal.

A section of the block diagram for Panasonic RX-7000 copied below. I believe, it must be the same case in most boxes.
Panasonic RX-7000 block diagram amp section.JPG
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
Chris,

The sound shaping functions always occur before the volume pot. You can take the signal "after" the volume pot if you think you can figure out which lead goes where. Keep in mind that some volume pots have a lot of leads (as many as 8) which may include loudness compensation circuits too. From the volume pot, the signal almost always travels through a 1-uf coupling capacitor. Whether or not your new amp setup requires this will depend upon how your amp is configured. This capacitor is important to block DC signals from reaching the amp input. It also helps prevent cascade failures of the system if the preamp malfunctions. Some amps setup also includes a series resistor in the signal path. This is more to prevent the preamp signal from getting loaded and dragged down than to attenuate the signal. A proper attenuation technique uses a voltage divider setup. A series resistor is not that so don't be afraid of including it. Somewhere around 8.2k to 10k might help if you are experiencing some distortion attributed to loading of the preamp. Premade amps, like car amps, usually are designed to operate on line-level signals. The internal signals that power the internal amp is not necessary match standard line-level specifications.

Speaking of, keep in mind that these circuits are all engineered with the factory internal amp in mind. Impedance matching is the issue here. The output impedance of the preamplifier is designed with the factory amplifier input impedance in mind. Tapping into this signal alters this balance and can result in poor performance, perhaps manifest as distortion, hum, etc. If both the internal amp and new amp circuit taps this circuit, then the impedance has been effectively halved (varies depending upon the input impedance of both amps). If you look at the circuit diagrams of your boombox, you might even find resistors tethering the input signal path to ground. While the resistors might have high resistance (30k +), it is still an alternate path to ground and reduces impedance. Tying another new circuit to this orig circuit affects the original circuit in what way then? Don't know? Neither do I. It depends. Bottom line is that while it sounds simple, the truth is that it's usually not quite that simple in real life.

It is worth a try though. However, if you find that the results aren't what you expected, you may have to consider experimenting with adding a series resistor, or divorcing the orig amp from the circuit to reduce amplifier input impedance. Since most volume pots are soldered directly onto a PCB, this might not be as easy as it sounds and could involve cutting PCB traces to do. However when adding a second amp adversely affects the impedance balance and you are getting poor output, this might need to be done since the old circuitry is acting like a drain and doing nothing but going along for the ride anyhow. Removing the old amp chip alone won't do it, since there are appurtenant amp circuitry that will affect impedance. Also keep in mind that when replacing an amp like this, the original spatial sound features will usually no longer work. To reactivate, the circuit will need to be redesigned or modified.
 

floyd

Boomus Fidelis
you can also buy a higher quality line output adapter ones that have l/r gain control. there are many options out there just have to choose one , these units must be grounded properly or you will get noise and hiss and all that also low signal transfer thus a weak line out signal.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
OK, wow...I really opened up a can of worms with this one....

Norm, as you remember with the Louder Blaster and how I added the amp, the sound quality just wasn't there in the end. Is it LOUD?, your damn right and at full volume it is wicked, but it is so far removed from anything remotely considered a "Usable Boombox".

It seems like it would be easier to gut a box, put in an amp, F the radio, F the cassette, go full bluetooth and control the volume from the MP3 player.
 

floyd

Boomus Fidelis
ever heard of the spruce goose? lol. it happens every ****ing time . trust me i know lol. **** starts out logical them after about 24 hours you are trying to figure out how your gonna carry it and and how many lawn mower batteries you will need.
 

floyd

Boomus Fidelis
i got a busted up incomplete total pos vz 2000e i'll donate to the cause if the pay the shipping . the perfect box to rebuild on. has a lot to work with but its just a husk.
 
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