What do you guys use to play your iPod/ phone through?

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ecky

Member (SA)
What do you guys find the best way to play your sound through your boombox guys?. I can't play through my headphone socket (iPhone), as its to quiet. So I have been thinking of
A:- FM transmitter
B:- cassette with 3.5mm headphone jack wire
Or another way to get the phone to be not low through the line in on the boombox
 

mellymelsr

Member (SA)
Cell phones generally will not put out enough power to properly drive some boomboxes. The most powerful output from a cell phone heaphone port belongs to the iphone at 34 milliwatts. In comparison I have a fiio hi res player that puts out 225 milliwatts from a true line out source. The sound and power difference is not even comparable. It plays noticeably louder on line in than on the fm setting at the same volume setting. Sound clarity is improved as well. On my M70 for example, when using my hi res player the volume is painfully loud indoors on level 4. Comfortable listening volume is at 2. Outdoors volume level 5 will easily crush any boombox that uses a cell phone for input.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
mellymelsr said:
Cell phones generally will not put out enough power to properly drive some boomboxes. The most powerful output from a cell phone heaphone port belongs to the iphone at 34 milliwatts. In comparison I have a fiio hi res player that puts out 225 milliwatts from a true line out source. The sound and power difference is not even comparable. It plays noticeably louder on line in than on the fm setting at the same volume setting. Sound clarity is improved as well. On my M70 for example, when using my hi res player the volume is painfully loud indoors on level 4. Comfortable listening volume is at 2. Outdoors volume level 5 will easily crush any boombox that uses a cell phone for input.
Interesting Mel, I had never heard of that device. Just did some googling, kind of pricey, but you mentioned before how you listen to FLAC files, is this what you use for playback?

It would be nice to have a player that plays the full digital rendering of the original music and not a 10% mp3.
 

mellymelsr

Member (SA)
Lasonic TRC-920 said:
Interesting Mel, I had never heard of that device. Just did some googling, kind of pricey, but you mentioned before how you listen to FLAC files, is this what you use for playback?

It would be nice to have a player that plays the full digital rendering of the original music and not a 10% mp3.
I use flac files for playback. Listening to a full digital rendering makes a huge difference. Also these players have properly grounded amps for a completely silent background. No hiss or crackling to cover up the delicate sounds in the music track. It has made listening to my boomboxes a whole new experience.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
mellymelsr said:
I use flac files for playback. Listening to a full digital rendering makes a huge difference. Also these players have properly grounded amps for a completely silent background. No hiss or crackling to cover up the delicate sounds in the music track. It has made listening to my boomboxes a whole new experience.
How many songs will it hold? FLAC files are huge! But of course, they are full size with no compression.

I'm sure you'll have that with you in Vegas, we should pick a song, I'll bring an MP3 of that song and play it through my mp3 player and you play through your player, both through the same stereo, I would love to hear the comparison. Might push me to make a purchase.

I bet you just cringe when you hear low fi mp3's now.

I can only imagine that player through the M90 :jawdrop:
 

mellymelsr

Member (SA)
Lasonic TRC-920 said:
How many songs will it hold? FLAC files are huge! But of course, they are full size with no compression.

I'm sure you'll have that with you in Vegas, we should pick a song, I'll bring an MP3 of that song and play it through my mp3 player and you play through your player, both through the same stereo, I would love to hear the comparison. Might push me to make a purchase.

I bet you just cringe when you hear low fi mp3's now.

I can only imagine that player through the M90 :jawdrop:
It has a 128gb micro sd card. Plenty of room for all my music. I'm definitely bringing it to Vegas! It brings out the best of all my boxes but the M90 sounds exceptional. It's really impressive the quality that went into that radio. The 9994 is very impressive as well.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
mellymelsr said:
It has a 128gb micro sd card. Plenty of room for all my music. I'm definitely bringing it to Vegas! It brings out the best of all my boxes but the M90 sounds exceptional. It's really impressive the quality that went into that radio. The 9994 is very impressive as well.
I definitely would like to hear it. My ears are just getting tired. The mp3 revolution has been harder on them that 25 years of AC/DC concerts.

I have been working on some new music, a HUGE 23+ minute Thrash Metal Opera wrapped around Edgar Allan Poe's "The Raven". Well over a year and a half's worth of work. All the beautiful details that are in the music sound amazing through the recording software. Then you CUT it down to an mp3 :annoyed: :bang: and it just sounds flat, like someone stepped on it. It's very discouraging.
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
Lasonic TRC-920 said:
All the beautiful details that are in the music sound amazing through the recording software. Then you CUT it down to an mp3 :annoyed: :bang: and it just sounds flat, like someone stepped on it. It's very discouraging.
Is it the MP3 player or the MP3 file itself? The contrast comparison you mention, through the same processor or different? Also what bitrate? What was the Mp3 file created with? Could it be the software itself is nipping the details? I have heard Mp3's that doesn't sound good, and I have heard good ones too of the same song. Also, any digital rendering is going to lack something. That's the nature of digital vs. analog. Technically speaking, you aren't "supposed" to be able to hear the difference in drop-outs created by good digital recordings because our ears aren't supposed to be able to tell the difference. But on many song's I can definitely tell the difference betweeen analog and digital.

Finally, digital is not just a software function, there are hardware components involved as well. These are the opamps in the device known as ADC and DAC. (Analog to Digital Converter) and (Digital to Analog Converters). The ADC converts your live music into the digital signal and the DAC's convert a digital file (mp3?) into an analog signal for playback. It is well known that the right opamp can make a world of a difference in the final product. In fact, the best opamps are extremely expensive. I believe the opamps in the product Melly is talking about uses some good ones (which is why those players are quite expensive). I haven't been able to afford one yet but in most audiophile circles, they know which opamps to use and which to avoid. Unfortunately, good ones are predictably far more expensive.
 

mellymelsr

Member (SA)
Bit rate is 24 bit/192 khz. Played through a hi res dac. But like Norm said the source recording is what's most important. A 320 kps mp3 can sound great if the source recording is clean. The difference between flac and mp3 is this...and mp3 file must be clipped to fit the file size so part of the music's depth is clipped as well. Flac files aren't clipped, you get 100% of the music file. Even with flac the quality of the file is important. What the source is played through is just as important as file quality. A pair of ipod ear buds won't sound much different with mp3 of flac. But a pair of reference headphones like Audio Technica ATH M50 you would notice a world of difference in clarity and separation.
 

mellymelsr

Member (SA)
Bit rate is 24 bit/192 khz. Played through a hi res dac. But like Norm said the source recording is what's most important. A 320 kps mp3 can sound great if the source recording is clean. The difference between flac and mp3 is this...an mp3 file must be clipped to fit the file size so part of the music's depth is clipped as well. Flac files aren't clipped, you get 100% of the music file. Even with flac the quality of the file is important. What the source is played through is just as important as file quality. A pair of ipod ear buds won't sound much different with mp3 or flac. But a pair of reference headphones like Audio Technica ATH M50 you would notice a world of difference in clarity and separation.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
Superduper said:
Is it the MP3 player or the MP3 file itself? The contrast comparison you mention, through the same processor or different? Also what bitrate? What was the Mp3 file created with? Could it be the software itself is nipping the details? I have heard Mp3's that doesn't sound good, and I have heard good ones too of the same song. Also, any digital rendering is going to lack something. That's the nature of digital vs. analog. Technically speaking, you aren't "supposed" to be able to hear the difference in drop-outs created by good digital recordings because our ears aren't supposed to be able to tell the difference. But on many song's I can definitely tell the difference betweeen analog and digital.

Finally, digital is not just a software function, there are hardware components involved as well. These are the opamps in the device known as ADC and DAC. (Analog to Digital Converter) and (Digital to Analog Converters). The ADC converts your live music into the digital signal and the DAC's convert a digital file (mp3?) into an analog signal for playback. It is well known that the right opamp can make a world of a difference in the final product. In fact, the best opamps are extremely expensive. I believe the opamps in the product Melly is talking about uses some good ones (which is why those players are quite expensive). I haven't been able to afford one yet but in most audiophile circles, they know which opamps to use and which to avoid. Unfortunately, good ones are predictably far more expensive.
The recording software I use is Presonus Studio One Producer. I can export out to FLAC, but the common default output is WAV, 16 bit, 44.1 kHz and right there I can hear a noticable loss. I also offer my albums in FLAC, MP3 and WAV.

Just a quick glance at iTunes (which is probably what the majority of people use to rip MP3's) the basic default setting is 256 kbps, 44.1 kHz.

Yet another common software for making MP3's is FORMAT FACTORY, it's default settings for "High Quality" spit MP3's out at 192 kbps. It's not the max setting, but unless you go adjust it, this is what you will get, which I'm sure is what 90% of the people making MP3's with it will end up with. They just plug and play and are done.

If you listen to these side by side, pre compressed, it's not even funny. Sadly, the current generation of humans in their early 20's have probably heard very little uncompressed music.

Technically speaking, you aren't "supposed" to be able to hear the difference in drop-outs created by good digital recordings because our ears aren't supposed to be able to tell the difference.

This is a topic I have heard many many times. "If your ear can't hear it, it doesn't matter!" But your ear CAN hear it. The actual sound waves traveling through the air are still hitting your eardrum. How the mechanics of your ear and brain process it is another story, but the waves are there.

IMO, chopping those signals out, regardless if your brain uses it is irrelevant. It's part of the smooth flow of a wave signal, created first with an instrument disrupting the air around it, then by the speaker reproducing it, lastly to your ear. Sending a compressed computerized version, no matter how small the compression is, alters the quality of the music. The waveform becomes stepped and jagged and your brain can detect it. And again, IMO, it leads to your ears becoming tired, your mind is taxed and the listening experience becomes stressful instead of relaxing (says the guy who play's High Velocity Speed Thrash Metal)

Now, with all that said, As you and Mellymelsr have pointed out, you can still get super high quality music reproduction from digital gear, but it does cost. I certainly wouldn't expect it to come from a $20 Walmart mp3 player. High end playback processors would be the way to go. I just haven't heard any and would really like too.
 

mellymelsr

Member (SA)
Chris you are absolutely right. Compressed oversampled music is generally what kids hear today. I grew up listening to LP's which I'm sure you know is the purest analog form of music. A good flac download paired with a proper set of studio monitor headphones is pure music nirvana! What studio headphones do you use Chris?
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
Lasonic TRC-920 said:
The recording software I use is Presonus Studio One Producer. I can export out to FLAC, but the common default output is WAV, 16 bit, 44.1 kHz and right there I can hear a noticable loss. I also offer my albums in FLAC, MP3 and WAV.
Chris, I'm curious. When you say that when you convert to wav, you already hear a noticeable loss... what are you comparing it to? Is the source also already on the computer in another format? In other words, how do you get your audio program into the computer initially? Microphone? Line-in to soundcard? Some other way? Or are you comparing your program on tape vs your program on the computer?

See the thing is this: wav is a lossless format. That means all of the original program material is there. Although there is a way to "compress" wav files, that generally is not the manner in which wav used, and the most common wav files are lossless and compression free. The problem with wav of course is file size. A 5 minute program could be 40mb. Flac is also a lossless format which is why it sound better than MP3 (and other lossy) formats. But unlike wav, it is compressed so you get the best of both worlds, lossless but small file sizes.

So the question is whether your initial quality loss is due to the manner in which the original program material is transfered to the computer or whether it is due to file conversion. Because you state that cutting the program to wav already degrades the program, I am leaning towards a economy hardware issue. Meaning cheap ADC (analog to digital converter). Remember, your audio program was originally analog and it had to be converted to digital in order for the computer to do anything with it. If the file the computer subsequently uses to "process" that information is already degraded, it only gets worse from there. No matter how much processing power your computer has, it is irrelevant if the digital information is already degraded during the conversion process.

Now, as far as chopping out.... one thing you need to understand is that once converted to digital from analog, ALL digital files are already cut. For example, if your audio was a perfect sine wave, it would be continuous wavy line that represents your audio signal. There would be no breaks in the line. However digital takes a snapshot view (sort of like drawing pictures in a booklet and flipping through the pages to create a moving image). So if this was audio, and it was being done the same way, the audio sample would be chopped up into evenly spaced "images". The coarser the pages or cuts, the more cut or loss in the music. The finer the pages or cuts, the smoother the music and less loss. I mentioned this in a previous post but in theory, if you chop it up fine enough, in theory the human ear isn't fast enough to hear the "lost" information. But I swear I can. In any event, if you look at any two adjacent digital snapshots, there is always space in between that is lost. Theoretically, the finer the cuts, the less space between the snapshots and the better the audio fidelity (less loss) but no matter how fine it is chopped up... a million times per second even, there will still always be information lost compared to analog since by definition, analog is continuous. That is the nature of digital, which is that the information is stored as snapshots in time.

So going back to the original topic. Is the problem with the transfer of audio from your original analog source to digital? Because once in the computer and rendered to a file, ANY file, it has already become digital.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
Superduper said:
Chris, I'm curious. When you say that when you convert to wav, you already hear a noticeable loss... what are you comparing it to? Is the source also already on the computer in another format? In other words, how do you get your audio program into the computer initially? Microphone? Line-in to soundcard? Some other way? Or are you comparing your program on tape vs your program on the computer?

See the thing is this: wav is a lossless format. That means all of the original program material is there. Although there is a way to "compress" wav files, that generally is not the manner in which wav used, and the most common wav files are lossless and compression free. The problem with wav of course is file size. A 5 minute program could be 40mb. Flac is also a lossless format which is why it sound better than MP3 (and other lossy) formats. But unlike wav, it is compressed so you get the best of both worlds, lossless but small file sizes.

So the question is whether your initial quality loss is due to the manner in which the original program material is transfered to the computer or whether it is due to file conversion. Because you state that cutting the program to wav already degrades the program, I am leaning towards a economy hardware issue. Meaning cheap ADC (analog to digital converter). Remember, your audio program was originally analog and it had to be converted to digital in order for the computer to do anything with it. If the file the computer subsequently uses to "process" that information is already degraded, it only gets worse from there. No matter how much processing power your computer has, it is irrelevant if the digital information is already degraded during the conversion process.

Now, as far as chopping out.... one thing you need to understand is that once converted to digital from analog, ALL digital files are already cut. For example, if your audio was a perfect sine wave, it would be continuous wavy line that represents your audio signal. There would be no breaks in the line. However digital takes a snapshot view (sort of like drawing pictures in a booklet and flipping through the pages to create a moving image). So if this was audio, and it was being done the same way, the audio sample would be chopped up into evenly spaced "images". The coarser the pages or cuts, the more cut or loss in the music. The finer the pages or cuts, the smoother the music and less loss. I mentioned this in a previous post but in theory, if you chop it up fine enough, in theory the human ear isn't fast enough to hear the "lost" information. But I swear I can. In any event, if you look at any two adjacent digital snapshots, there is always space in between that is lost. Theoretically, the finer the cuts, the less space between the snapshots and the better the audio fidelity (less loss) but no matter how fine it is chopped up... a million times per second even, there will still always be information lost compared to analog since by definition, analog is continuous. That is the nature of digital, which is that the information is stored as snapshots in time.

So going back to the original topic. Is the problem with the transfer of audio from your original analog source to digital? Because once in the computer and rendered to a file, ANY file, it has already become digital.
Hey Norm, I'm like you, people tell me I can't hear the difference between highly rendered digital and analog, but even as tired as my ears are, I can hear it in certain situations and on certain gear.

To be honest with you, I don't know what format the "Intake" software is rendering on. My recordings start via microphone, through USB3 into the recording software, Guitars, drums, bass, vocals all enter the computer via a microphone.

While in the editing software, the headroom is amazing. Where it goes from there, I can not explain to you. I know you don't get down this way much any more, but if you're ever in this area again and want to stop by (besides all this, would be cool so see you), I could simply show you what I mean.

But we are getting way off subject now...
 

Reli

Boomus Fidelis
-GZ- said:
-GZ-, on 03 May 2016 - 3:30 PM, said:-GZ-, on 03 May 2016 - 3:30 PM, said:

Turn the volume up on your phone while using the headphone jack.
Some phones still suck. For example, the iPhone 4S, 5, and the new SE put out less than half a volt through their headphone ports, while the iPhone 5S, 6, and 6S put out twice as much.

headphone volume iphone 6s vs galaxy s7 s6.jpg
 

Hisrudeness

Member (SA)
I have to change my IPad for work every two years so for YouTube, Internet radio I use my old iPad 4.
For Android I downloaded the Poweramp app which is one of the best on the market. Way better than what is usually pre loaded on the handsets.
 
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