Was a boombox's sound designed for each generation?

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restocat

Member (SA)
I noticed that my Panasonic RX-5600 sounds great with 70s music, while the Toshiba RT-S932 works well with the synthesized 80s music.

I'm sure somewhere along the way, designers had to make choices, and I propose that they made these choices based, in part, on the music of the day. :dj-party:

So, what do you all think? Do your 70s radios play better with 70s music? :hmmm:

Do your 80s boomboxes work better with the Beastie boys than your 1990's models? :hmmm:

If someone has a large JVC collection, let me know how the 70s models (JVC RC 383) compare with the 80s models (M70/90 etc). Does each play its own generational music the best?
 

Fatdog

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I know the Sharp GF-9494 seems to have been made for '70s rock 'n' roll. Everything sounds good on the M90 - doesn't matter which decade. :-D
 

mellymelsr

Member (SA)
To my ears 80's music sounds best on 80's boomboxes (M70,M90,MX920)...they don't sound too shabby on my 3 piecers either (FH7, 680, GF800) but I do prefer listening to the one-piecers, it makes the music sound the way I remember it... :-D
 

Gluecifer

Member (SA)
I definitely believe a lot of radios were developed or tuned to certain music styles and the demographics of the market the manufacturer was aiming for.

The bass on the early Lasonics go completely with the low end of hip hop, as was the market they were aimed at.

Something like an M90 or BigBen seemed to aimed more at the more mature demographic of discerning listeners
who listened to much broader spectrum musical styles, like jazz and classical.

As Bobby says too, a lot of the late 70s Sharp range really cater to the rock and pop sounds of the times.

One needs to remember that 'bass' wasn't a driving force in 70s and even early 80s, listening to original releases
of albums of the time compared to the new 'remastered' ones will show how little bass is really in the intended mixes.

There is definitely a 'sound' to certain eras of music that is an instrumental, production and artistic choice that then defines
it's style.

I'm positive these styles were wholly taken into consideration when designing portables, and to an extent I think it made
manufacturers unconcerned about certain frequencies (especially bass) as it wasn't so pronounced in the popular music of the time.

As music became more electronic and produced and moved away from the 'live' sound I think then the concept of bassy
portables became more of priority for manufacturers.

Just my opinion of course, I've nothing to back this up with apart from my own experience.

Great topic, Restocat!



Rock On.
 

manimal347

Member (SA)
I don't own enough boxes to really know, but my '80 RX-5600 points towards what Gluecifer says. Shredding treble, and it falls on its behind when trying to play bass-heavy music. I blasted Le Tigre's S/T on it today, and by Jove the woofers were bouncing hard, yet there was little thud to be heard. Kinda embarrassing, actually. On the other hand, it excels at music like jazz or new-wave - anything bright and rather light on the bass lines. Quite the opposite of my rather less sophisticated Magnavox D-8300, which thuds more than it crashes, and actually has more bass despite the paper surround ~5" bass driver. I look forwards to seeing how my Wards 3996A will perform, and if it being a few years newer, can carry a better bassline than the Panasonic RX-5600.
 

BoomBoxDeluxe

Member (SA)
I have wondered this for some time now.

How about looking at this from the other way around?

The music was mastered for boomboxes. i.e. BoomBox-friendly music.

Let's face it here.......take a classic breakdance track and play it on a boomer. Sounds great, doesn't it?

Now, why would a recording studio master that so it would sound rubbish on a boombox? Easy, they wouldn't.

I think, it's easier to master the music around the equipment that it's most likely to be played on, rather than try and manufacture equipment for a particular type of music.

by manimal 347:

I blasted Le Tigre's S/T on it today, and by Jove the woofers were bouncing hard, yet there was little thud to be heard.

This music was obviously not mastered for a 70s / 80s boombox. As quoted, the woofers were woofin, but with apparently no sound.
This is because the boombox finds it difficult to reproduce that frequency with the power available to it, on those speakers.

I have seen this on some of my boxes. Some notes sound really good, and the woofers are tight and punchy, and then there will be certain notes, and it sounds flat, and the woofers are wobbling like crazy.

So yeah, I think that the music was mastered around equipment that it was most likely to be played on. Why master a 40hz frequency into the music if a boombox can't handle it? Sure, big subwoofers in cars can, and it's this kind of equipment that this kind of music is aimed at.


-BoomBoxDeluxe.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
I totally agree with all of you guys, I think the music industry has followed the technical limitations of the time and I think those technical limitations were naturally built into the equipment of the time. I also think that engineers were trying to go for the best sound quality they could that could be broadcast over analog AM and FM radio. I also believe that "Helped" in creating a "Radio Hit" of the time period. I think it still helps today!

Music is manufactured today, pushing it to the sonic limit. The $99 home system of today comes with a separate sub woofer enclosure tested and measured to ONLY create bass. AND to frequencies as low as 20-30 hertz. 70's and 80's radios have "Full Range Loud Speakers". They can't reproduce an 808 note or really low frequency tones.

But with all that said I think this is one of the reasons certain music from the past sounds so great today on ANY system. If you can crank up AC/DC really LOUD on a mono radio as it was originally designed to be, then it will naturally still sound great on anything moving forward.

As for "Remastered" music from the past....Personally speaking, it's not my thing. In my extensive cassette collection I have many original tapes of the original mix and they are difference, in my opinion BETTER! and with out doubt, BETTER on a BOOM BOX! The original mixes don't push these classic radios beyond their technical limitations and in that, I think the sound GREAT!
 

Fatdog

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Lasonic TRC-920 said:
As for "Remastered" music from the past....Personally speaking, it's not my thing. In my extensive cassette collection I have many original tapes of the original mix and they are difference, in my opinion BETTER! and with out doubt, BETTER on a BOOM BOX! The original mixes don't push these classic radios beyond their technical limitations and in that, I think the sound GREAT!
Yep. Today's remastering process destroys the dynamic range of the original recordings. Help fight the Loudness War - visit the website below for more information:

(Be sure to watch the short Flash intro)

http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/


Here's a good example:

[youtube]7UjQc0dM4H4[/youtube]
 

oldskool69

Moderator
Staff member
I agree with al the above statements regarding audio design. By pushing the technical limit, you also remove the warmth or smoothness of the sound. What I enjoy the most is when my neighbors or kids freinds come over nd wonder where I got my equimpnt from because it makes music so "easy" to listen to without getting tired.

Digital music (and the equipment that reproduces it) is harsh. :thumbsdown:

As for the "remastering" process, the imperfections that would not normally be heard on vinyl/cassette are brought to life, then remixed back out. The problem is that there are "holes" left where the so called "imperfections" are removed. Not only that, certain frequency levels are "boosted" afterward to correct the loss and thus the recording sounds shrill or harsh, not smooth as we remember it.

I listened to my original Steely Dan, "Aja" on wax, then a "remastered" CD. The CD is best served being a coaster for my drinks... :lol:
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
Fatdog said:
Lasonic TRC-920 said:
As for "Remastered" music from the past....Personally speaking, it's not my thing. In my extensive cassette collection I have many original tapes of the original mix and they are difference, in my opinion BETTER! and with out doubt, BETTER on a BOOM BOX! The original mixes don't push these classic radios beyond their technical limitations and in that, I think the sound GREAT!
Yep. Today's remastering process destroys the dynamic range of the original recordings. Help fight the Loudness War - visit the website below for more information:

(Be sure to watch the short Flash intro)

http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/


Here's a good example:

[youtube]7UjQc0dM4H4[/youtube]


I checked out this whole site and forwarded it to others. It really is a shame that this is how far music has come and when you think of it, video as well.

From a technical stand point, today's musical equipment SHOULD be the best ever. We now have High Def TV and yet most people today are watching and listening too downloaded content that has been compressed and smashed to death! You Tube video's filmed with a cell phone. MP3 audio files ripped by some kid with no understanding of the software is being passed around and then downloaded into people collections and this is all they know.

I have had an on going argument with a good friend of mine about the quality of MP3's. There in now way taking a musical "Representation" of a song and converting it to a digital file, then running it all backwards through multiple computer chips sounds better then a record or magnetic tape. It's just the nature of the beast.

On this website http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/ they have SCIENTIFIC PROOF!

The sad part is, 90% of all popular music has been "Remastered". For the most part it's gone forever unless the standard the people on that website get to happen and even at that, I see no way of the industry reversing gears. It's just not going to happen. I am so glad I have my cassette collection and am always adding to it.

The bummer is not all of the tapes are perfect, but I'd say I have 80% in really good condition.

Over here in Japan, I have seen some nice home stereo's with cassette players and component tape decks like the one below. It's not totally dead. Notice it is for converting your cassettes to MP3 via a USB plug! Who would want to do that! :lol:

Well, it's one way of getting that old mix into your collection!

cassettedeckjapan.jpg
.
 

ClaretBadger

Member (SA)
"One needs to remember that 'bass' wasn't a driving force in 70s and even early 80s, listening to original releases
of albums of the time compared to the new 'remastered' ones will show how little bass is really in the intended mixes."

You're right Rick

My home stereo is designed for vinyl - and designed for the disearning ear of the 70-80's
midrange/mid bass - which is given speed and panache

Rather than the thunderous mega bass boxes of the later 80's early 90's
 

gld1307

Member (SA)
Gluecifer said:
One needs to remember that 'bass' wasn't a driving force in 70s and even early 80s

That's apart from reggae. I remember my mum and dad taking my sister and I to local events where sound systems used to be dong the music. Trust me when I say bass was the driving force. :lol:

Friggin ridiculous at times actually.
 

jaetee

Member (SA)
Great topic & great info! FYI: Wiki has a pretty good writeup on the loudness wars, too...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_wars
(I think this is probably the fifth or sixth time I've posted that link...)

Initally, digital mastering was meant as a way to reduce background recording hiss that can become apparent during very quiet passages of the music mastered on analog tape. That's why digital mastering in it's early stages was used mostly for classical music, played acoustically and recorded via very elaborate microphone setups.

It's no surprise to me that the flash example uses that Dire Straits CD from 1986 as it was one of the first ever commerical Pop/Rock releases that carried the DDD mastering symbol, indicating that was 100% digitally mastered from start to playback. That was a huge deal in the music and stereo magazines back in the day. So, that is definitely an example of comparing what is done to the master digital recording after-the-fact back then, versus how they tend to master music now.

Where it gets really tricky is when you try to compare a really good analog master vs. a digital reproduction. And I think the only way to do that is really to sit down in front of a well tuned turntable system and listen to a pre 1986 record and compare it to the latest "remaster" of that via CD. You can even digitize an old recording youself and "normalize" the audio file for a similar effect. Yuckety-yuck-yuck!

I've done exactly that with some of my DJ buddies when we had this same type of conversation... listening to the same music that I happen to have on vinyl, CD and MP3. I've actually done this several time, but most recently with Prince's Purple Rain. To take that a step further, I even recorded the vinyl track onto audio cassette and HiFi VHS and we conducted blind tests. I controlled what source was playing and my buds had no idea what was playing... they just told me what source they thought sounded the best. The HiFi VHS recording received highest praise, followed closely by the actual record and the cassette tape (which were basically tied thanks to well tuned Nakamichi deck). The CD finished next-to last, ahead of a clean 196kps MP3, and miles ahead of a 128kps normalized MP3 version.

I should mention that we didn't compare any of that on actual boomboxes and the soundsystem I have to do this kind of comparison is not what most would consider the norm, but the point I'm trying to make is that analog simply has a more airy and alive feel to it, at all levels. We all liked analog best, and after it was all done we played the HiFi VHS version from start to finish, just because they wanted to hear it that way in its entirety.... It was a fun experiment and an easy way to kill a 12-pack!

I totally agree with the comments about how music nowadays seems to rely more on bass than ever before, especially in modern pop and R&B. That' wouldn't be a bad thing if shoddy mastering and compression wouldn't cause the treble detail to suffer dramatically or disapper completely. To me, for the most part sound engineering seems to have taken more steps backwards than forwards over the years. And many musicians seem to have taken notice of this as well, which is why you are seeing a resurgence of artists insisting on analog mastering and / or the use of no dynamic range compression at all in their mastering. Well, at least those who know the difference, anyway.

But, getting somewhat back to the original topic, if you want to make modern music sound better on an oldschool boombox, I challenge you to record your new tunes onto tape and then give it a listen... The odds are that your box won't even try to record the ultra-low sounds (since it can't) and then your box won't go nuts trying to reproduce them. Just be careful with your levels and don't push them too high. You might be pleasantly surprised by the results.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
Hey jaetee,

Great read...I think your points about using a system of that caliber to do the test really makes allot of sense because you effectively remove the system from the equation and leave it all on the media format. As I had mentioned, I have had this conversation with others more times than I care too think about, each time with the others holding their ground that MP3's are just as good as the original, which is of course as you have proved in your own tests total B.S.

And I totally agree, I think the recording industry and music of today (not style, just recording/mastering techniques) have moved backwards, not forwards.

When I recored in New York back in 2005 with a notable Grammy winning record producer, we recorded full digital, but just before the final process he ran the songs through a vintage 1/2 inch reel to reel and back into the computer.

You said....
"But, getting somewhat back to the original topic, if you want to make modern music sound better on an oldschool boombox, I challenge you to record your new tunes onto tape and then give it a listen... The odds are that your box won't even try to record the ultra-low sounds (since it can't) and then your box won't go nuts trying to reproduce them. Just be careful with your levels and don't push them too high. You might be pleasantly surprised by the results."

Do you think that making mix tapes off MP3's or CD's would sound good? I have often wanted to try it, just haven't had a chance too. Do you think we would run into the same problem of "Flat Sound" on the tapes?

I'd really like to learn how to make some full bodied mix tapes tailored to my blasters
 

jaetee

Member (SA)
Lasonic TRC-920 said:
Do you think that making mix tapes off MP3's or CD's would sound good? I have often wanted to try it, just haven't had a chance too. Do you think we would run into the same problem of "Flat Sound" on the tapes?

I'd really like to learn how to make some full bodied mix tapes tailored to my blasters

Well, without knowing what gear you have at your disposal its really tough to offer any useful advise.

I'd also be very careful and point out that I think making mix tapes of MP3 can sound good, but that doesn't mean that your efforts will sound good. My setup for playing MP3s is actually somewhat specialized and not really typical.

Very many factors come into play. For starters, what bitrate are your MP3's and where did you get them from? IMHO, using anything with a bitrate less than 196kps is really not even worth the effort. And even then, if the source was crap, even a 320kps MP3 will sound like crap.

So, for the sake of this discussion, let's assume you have MP3s that are 196kps and above... Now, how do you plan to play those MP3's and get that signal into a tape deck that can record them? And how good is that tape deck? If playing directly from a PC, you'll be limited by the quality of your soundcard and the quality of the cable that connects it to the sound system. Synergy of components makes a big difference.

And how experienced are you in making recordings? Just for kicks, you should try to record some MP3 tracks onto a tape via your best sounding boombox and see what happens. How does it sound? Then, send me a PM with a list of your gear and your thoughts on what your tape sounded like... maybe I can help give you some tips.

(Sorry to the OP for this going so far off topic... but at least this is kinda somewhat indirectly related to the original discussion... :-D )
 

Lasonic TRC-920

Moderator
jaetee said:
Lasonic TRC-920 said:
Do you think that making mix tapes off MP3's or CD's would sound good? I have often wanted to try it, just haven't had a chance too. Do you think we would run into the same problem of "Flat Sound" on the tapes?

I'd really like to learn how to make some full bodied mix tapes tailored to my blasters

Well, without knowing what gear you have at your disposal its really tough to offer any useful advise.

I'd also be very careful and point out that I think making mix tapes of MP3 can sound good, but that doesn't mean that your efforts will sound good. My setup for playing MP3s is actually somewhat specialized and not really typical.

Very many factors come into play. For starters, what bitrate are your MP3's and where did you get them from? IMHO, using anything with a bitrate less than 196kps is really not even worth the effort. And even then, if the source was crap, even a 320kps MP3 will sound like crap.

So, for the sake of this discussion, let's assume you have MP3s that are 196kps and above... Now, how do you plan to play those MP3's and get that signal into a tape deck that can record them? And how good is that tape deck? If playing directly from a PC, you'll be limited by the quality of your soundcard and the quality of the cable that connects it to the sound system. Synergy of components makes a big difference.

And how experienced are you in making recordings? Just for kicks, you should try to record some MP3 tracks onto a tape via your best sounding boombox and see what happens. How does it sound? Then, send me a PM with a list of your gear and your thoughts on what your tape sounded like... maybe I can help give you some tips.

(Sorry to the OP for this going so far off topic... but at least this is kinda somewhat indirectly related to the original discussion... :-D )

Yeah, I see where your going. to start with an MP3 in the first place, really doesn't make much sense at all. Well, I think I'll just keep collecting tapes and do some "Old School" tape to tape mixes on my GF-777z.

And sorry for getting so far off the original topic, but this has come full circle....
I think the answer really is YES, I think stereo equipment, boom boxes included HAVE been designed for each generation. Especially if you go into an electronics store today.

Below is a new SONY, it's $399.00 the top of the heap in this store...AM/FM tuner, NO CASSETTE, "Apple" Brand iPod docking station, 5 disc CD changer that will play MP3's. Preset "Equalizing" choices (i.e. Jazz, Hi Hop, Rock).

I will say, this thing PUMPS....In true "Jerk in the stereo section" fashion, I pressed play on the CD player, nothing came out so I twisted the volume screw and BANG!!!! FULL BLAST! But at the end of the day, you have a LOUD system, playing loud harshly mixed, poorly sampled tracks. I have a feeling it would just wear on your mind and leave you fatigued.

newsony.jpg
 

hollyrockets

Member (SA)
Fatdog said:
Lasonic TRC-920 said:
As for "Remastered" music from the past....Personally speaking, it's not my thing. In my extensive cassette collection I have many original tapes of the original mix and they are difference, in my opinion BETTER! and with out doubt, BETTER on a BOOM BOX! The original mixes don't push these classic radios beyond their technical limitations and in that, I think the sound GREAT!
Yep. Today's remastering process destroys the dynamic range of the original recordings. Help fight the Loudness War - visit the website below for more information:

(Be sure to watch the short Flash intro)

http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/


Here's a good example:

[youtube]7UjQc0dM4H4[/youtube]

I can't stand the whole loudness war. I wish there was a way for someone to win so music would stop being so highly compressed and flattened in order to drive sales.

As a former audio engineering student the instructors HIGHLY emphasized listening to your mix on SEVERAL systems, of a variety of qualities as a final edit before finishing. In fact, most studios should have a few sets of monitors (speakers) inside the control room for this purpose, as well. It only makes sense to do this. I'm sure they did it back in 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, too.
 

fins5

Member (SA)
Thanks for posting that, dawg...fascinating stuff!

Fatdog said:
Lasonic TRC-920 said:
As for "Remastered" music from the past....Personally speaking, it's not my thing. In my extensive cassette collection I have many original tapes of the original mix and they are difference, in my opinion BETTER! and with out doubt, BETTER on a BOOM BOX! The original mixes don't push these classic radios beyond their technical limitations and in that, I think the sound GREAT!
Yep. Today's remastering process destroys the dynamic range of the original recordings. Help fight the Loudness War - visit the website below for more information:

(Be sure to watch the short Flash intro)

http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/


Here's a good example:

[youtube]7UjQc0dM4H4[/youtube]
 

2steppa

Member (SA)
And on top of the loudness issue, many 'remastered' tunes from the 80s have some pretty fierce noise gating applied to remove any slight hiss from the master tape, resulting in a stifled and unexciting mess, give me a little (barely perceivable) tape hiss and nice 'open' sound any day!

Case in point, a comp CD of soul tunes I have has Booker Newbury's 'Love Town' which sounds as though its struggling to break through the noise gating at times and basically wipes it out... now, compare the vinyl version ahhhhhhhh - bliss!!!! :thumbsup:
 
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