Thinking out loud

Status
Not open for further replies.

LJV

Member (SA)
The other day I was browsing to learn about famous M90. It has all that I expect when it matters design, but after reading so many topics about problems which are typical for cheapest radio-cassette players, than I start wondering, was it really made solid at all. I've seen one on eBay being sold for $ 1600. For that kind of money, even as an rare collector's item, one would expect reliability, durability, and absence of problems typical for cheap no-name units. I mean, what good is CPU controlled deck, if materials used for it, parts of mechanism, circuit boards, wiring and elements aren't leveled up with fancy digital electronics?

Isn't it better than to buy full metal vintage 8.5 inch wide mirco HI-FI, pay not more than 50-100$ for one in mint and operational condition, remove front masks of each element, and put them all together at custom-designed big aluminum front mask, with printed or even laser engraved markings and signs. Add to that real 3-way wooden speakers, hidden behind same alu. panel, and close it all in a box. It requires some diy, but at least, that would justify the price, which BTW wouldn't even come close to monstrous $ 1600 for M90 and similar prices of similar top class bboxes.

Metaphorically speaking, when you see M90 and many others, you get impression that you're looking at Rolls Royce of boomboxes, but once you start to drive it and look under the hood, you see the same engine like one in Yugo, suspension from Lada , steering from Wartburg etc.

I hope you don't mind this out loud thinking, but the more I read about shameful malfunctions of top class boomboxes, the closer I get to previously mentioned DIY idea of turning an micro HI-FI multi component system, into one-piece boombox.

Don't get me wrong, it's not about the money, even if they were being sold for $ 16 in mint condition, I'd get very upset if it stopped working, burn something on circuit board etc. I want them to last while being used and maintained properly, not to just look at them on the shelf, afraid that turning it on might be the last time because someone in the factory has built in plastic element instead of one made of metal.

I'd like to have fancy 80s bbox designed like M90, but with Telefunken HIFI studio 1M quality and craftsmanship.

Old HI-FI components aren't dying, they are Rolls Royces of audio, while unfortunately, boomboxes are just nice looking shells, but with no pearls inside. :'-(
 

ledmeter

Member (SA)
baddboybill said:
Ok so then why are you collecting them if your not crazy about them :hmmm:

:agree:
I know what you are saying LJV, they are just another plastic shell boombox which happens to be good looking and sounds pretty nice. I don't really know why the value jumped so phenomenally but if it costs that and you want it and haven't been lucky enough to find one locally then you just buy it. If you love original boomboxes then you can't just make one out of hifi gear and claim that it's better because it doesn't meet the criteria everyone else expects from a classic boombox. You can't compare them with home audio gear because that was designed to stay indoors and boomboxes are designed to go wherever you're going. :yes:
Boombox lovers just love boomboxes, whatever the value or explanation :-)
 

LJV

Member (SA)
baddboybill said:
Ok so then why are you collecting them if your not crazy about them :hmmm:

I just wanted to express a bit of disappointment, because I thought that top class lookers have top class internals, top class materials etc.

We seam to be drooling on things with attractive shells, and cheap, mismatching internals.
 

k2j

Member (SA)
No doubt man, your getting way too heavy. :-/

Just get several working of each that way if one goes kaput you can sell it to someone who could repair it and Jam with a spare unit. :-D

BTW this might not be the right place to RAG on boombox collecting. I've noticed another thread on a nameless website bagging collecting boxes maybe you should consider trying this one over there... Just sayin'
 

ledmeter

Member (SA)
LJV said:
baddboybill said:
Ok so then why are you collecting them if your not crazy about them :hmmm:

I just wanted to express a bit of disappointment, because I thought that top class lookers have top class internals, top class materials etc.

We seam to be drooling on things with attractive shells, and cheap, mismatching internals.

:lol: that's kind of the point, boomboxes are about image. How tough does a JC2000 look whiles being an absolute POS? :-) this is why boomboxes make for such good film props, they have more weight in concept rather than actuality. They're ridiculous machines, some of them, and I still can't believe they were ever produced, but they have a real camp value for that reason and besides that, I love them and love to love them and live to love them :-D
They're really special and were never about high quality, they are amazing portables :-)
 

LJV

Member (SA)
My nicest memories in life are bonded with music from bboxes. Take them away, and I'm left with close to nothing. All those teenage summer nights at the beach back in the eighties, even through the rest of the year, bbox was always at my reach, with radio on and pause waiting to release recording of new song. I've bought less than half a dozen of albums in my life, all the rest were blanks. Music means so much to me, bboxes mean so much to me because I'm incurably eighties nostalgic, and all the songs I've heard came trough those two tiny speakers. Now that I'm farty years old, I'd like to get one, just one minty and reliable, of my liking, much better than mini one I had when I was a teen, and use it daily to play 80s music just like I did once before. I miss the red stereo LED, sparkling of chromed parts, turning of the knobs, and pressing switches.
:blush:
 

Cpl-Chronic

Member (SA)
If you want a rugged boombox with clear 'Hi-Fi' sound & a refined 'qualtiy' feel then go with some Telefunken models, like the Sudio M1 or similiar. They jsut ooze class, rugged build & refined controls.
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
Me thinks your expectations of a product manufactured 30+ years ago, which has already far outlived it's expected useful design life and it's warranty having expired some 30, or maybe even 60 times the protection period, is perhaps a wee bit too high.

By it's very nature, collecting is impractical. The value of a collectors item will always far exceed it's value in terms of utility. You simply can't reconcile that fact and if you don't understand the difference, then you can spend the rest of eternity posed like the "thinker."

Value is simply a function of supply vs. demand and the price of a M90 will always be high. If that bothers you.... don't give it another thought and move on. However, if you find yourself dwelling on it.... then I suspect that you also are secretly a member of the "demand" group lamenting that you aren't in the more fortunate "supply" group. And if that is indeed the case, then know that you are in good company.
 

baddboybill

Boomus Fidelis
Superduper said:
Me thinks your expectations of a product manufactured 30+ years ago, which has already far outlived it's expected useful design life and it's warranty having expired some 30, or maybe even 60 times the protection period, is perhaps a wee bit too high.

By it's very nature, collecting is impractical. The value of a collectors item will always far exceed it's value in terms of utility. You simply can't reconcile that fact and if you don't understand the difference, then you can spend the rest of eternity posed like the "thinker."

Value is simply a function of supply vs. demand and the price of a M90 will always be high. If that bothers you.... don't give it another thought and move on. However, if you find yourself dwelling on it.... then I suspect that you also are secretly a member of the "demand" group lamenting that you aren't in the more fortunate "supply" group. And if that is indeed the case, then know that you are in good company.

:agree:
 

jaetee

Member (SA)
baddboybill said:
Superduper said:
Me thinks your expectations of a product manufactured 30+ years ago, which has already far outlived it's expected useful design life and it's warranty having expired some 30, or maybe even 60 times the protection period, is perhaps a wee bit too high.

By it's very nature, collecting is impractical. The value of a collectors item will always far exceed it's value in terms of utility. You simply can't reconcile that fact and if you don't understand the difference, then you can spend the rest of eternity posed like the "thinker."

Value is simply a function of supply vs. demand and the price of a M90 will always be high. If that bothers you.... don't give it another thought and move on. However, if you find yourself dwelling on it.... then I suspect that you also are secretly a member of the "demand" group lamenting that you aren't in the more fortunate "supply" group. And if that is indeed the case, then know that you are in good company.

:agree:

:agree: with :superduper: as well.

Your opening post sounds like it was written by someone who has never seen or heard an M90 first hand. When you listen to one that works properly it might make more sense to you.

From a practical perspective, your money is probably better spent on one of those 3-speaker TDKs and an iPod.
 

LJV

Member (SA)
You're right. I've never heard one of those that are actually working properly or working at all. That seams to be the point I was trying to make - if someone would randomly pick several units with mint exterior, it would be of absolutely no guarantee that I'd be actually able to hear how fully functional one sounds. So what is it that I'm actually checking on eBay, if the picture of $1600 boombox was photoshopped to hide existing scratches or not, and completely rely on faith when it matters functionality - despite the fact that I'm not buying a decorative item, but multifunctional device?


I know a guy whose grandpa owned an old Rolls Royce (yes using it again as metaphor). One day it had a failure as one of the half-shafts broke. He wrote to RR in UK, with model details, in order to purchase the new part. Soon after that, the cost-free package arrived on his address, with new spare part and a letter from RR official, saying "half-shafts on RR don't break".

No bill, no shipping, just respect for the customer and effort to maintain good name of the company.

What would happen now, if any of us was to ask manufacturer for spare part of the most expensive boombox made 25 yrs ago? We wouldn't get any, even if we'd express desire to pay for it.

What I'm trying to point out is my desire to be able to properly maintain and repair what I buy, even if it was second hand, and there is no such possibility. I don't want to buy one expensive unit, and than blow similar amount of money in order to get ridiculously worthless spare part from second unit, than perhaps buy third unit since something on second one isn't working etc.

Classic car collectors don't do it. They don't go and buy another identical car, in order to replace broken windshield on first one. For example, Michelin still makes tyres for cars built more than 100 years ago.


Since we've agreed that it is the exterior, the looks that makes boombox desirable, and that internals are extremely unreliable, than I'd really choose to buy the one with completely dead internals for few % of money needed for fully functional one (that can drop dead next day), and repair it on my own, knowing that replaced parts are new and checked out.
 

baddboybill

Boomus Fidelis
But you can't compare Boomboxes and cars :nonono: Any type of collector whether its Boomboxes, stamps, cars, etc.... Pay what they are willing to pay no matter what actual cost is. If you want it... You buy it!!! I personally wouldn't pay more than $.45 for a stamp, but that's just me and many pay as much as million dollars for them. Plus when you buy older car there is a chance things will break and cost more money :yes: Heck I've bought new cars with issues plus there is regular maintenance, oil changes, tire rotation etc... That cost money. So I would say you theory on prices is way off because people pay what they want for what ever the product is ;-) If you keep thinking this way then all you will own are beat up junk boxes. Like the old saying "You Get What You Pay For". :thumbsup:
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
LJV said:
Since we've agreed that it is the exterior, the looks that makes boombox desirable, and that internals are extremely unreliable, than I'd really choose to buy the one with completely dead internals for few % of money needed for fully functional one (that can drop dead next day), and repair it on my own, knowing that replaced parts are new and checked out.

To each his own. A transmission tech has no problem buying a car with a bad gearbox. However, a body collision expert might avoid cars with transmission problems like the plague. You don't know how to repair an M90 so you are leery about paying big bucks... we get that. But I'm not sure where you got the idea that there is concensus on your statement that aesthetics alone makes a boombox desirable. There are boomboxes that are ugly which are also desirable. There are really pretty ones that nobody cares to own. Also, as for the internals being unreliable.... don't know where you got that idea either. The M90 is about as reliable as they come. I have seen many examples fully working still on their original belts. For a 30 year old item, that is impressive. And to some, it's a big fearsome job. To others, it's a piece of cake. In my experience, the M90 falls on the upper end in the reliability scale.

If tomorrow, there was a mint looking M90 with bad internals, I might be in line to buy it for 4-figures. And I'll be very happy that you won't be bidding against me. In the grand scheme of things, just know that the world will do what it's going to do, regardless of how hard you resist. So you can close your eyes, cringe, bear down and do your very best to "will" it to your vision of what is ideal. My bet is on the world however.
 

Ken

Member (SA)
Superduper said:
My bet is on the world however.
Every time & twice on Sunday... ;-) To me,sound & fidelity is everything and I am very pleased with my collection.

I have a Tele Studio, and when you listen carefully, you can appriciate the differences in sound quality between it & and a Big Ben, a Big Sharp, a kaboom, a 9998, an M-X920, etc. :stereo:

I'd trade it all for a sweet, minty, M-90. It's all in the ears and if all the opinions I treasure are correct, I need one someday. :yes: If you are dissapointed in the sound, you just havn't listened closely to other boxes, i'm bettin'. :hmmm:
 

superlew

Member (SA)
This is one of the most interesting threads I've read in a while.
My Two Cents:
If you can afford it, and you can fix it, and you can enjoy it, it's worth every penny. :yes:
Most of my friends think I'm completely NuTz, but I really don't give a $#!+.
Funny thing is most of them also want to know where and how to get them. I tell them they can't afford it. :lol:
Like the old saying goes: "If you have to ask...."
Just my Two Cents.
:superduper: , you are 100% correct.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.