POLL Damage rate when shipped using crushed paper cushioning

[Superduper]

Received my near mint RS-4360dft from a member in the other forum today. It was bubble wrapped, 1 or 2 layers and put into a box, which was then stuffed in another larger box with balled up newspaper cushioning material. I had a bad feeling when the box arrived soft and you could feel there was lots of void between the box and contents when you poked the box with your fingers. I nearly had a heart attack when I first opened it up and saw the balled up newspaper. I felt better when I saw the inner box. After unwrapping, I was relieved as I thought this would be the first box I ever received that did not sustain shipping damage when cushioned with crushed paper products. This relief was short lived, however, when I saw a 2-3" crack running along the left upper corner of the case while operating it.

This makes for me a perfect 100% damage rate when paper cushioning materials was used in the packing, whether newspaper, brown paper packing, or expanded/perforated paper packing -- didn't matter. In this case, the damage was probably not worst only because it was bubble wrapped and double boxed. I paid an extra $20 and asked that it be packed well. Oh well, the saving grace is that it's so very nice cosmetically and I'm pretty sure the crack will be nearly invisible using some plastic solvent to "weld" it back together.

What type of failure or damage rates are you guys experiencing when a boombox arrives and paper packaging material in some form or manner is used? This is a POLL.

 

[monchito]

that there in a box then inside a bigger box is a clue ,, of good packing the outside takes the blunt with all that paper the inside stays intact ,, to me taht is a great way to pack but sometimes costly but well worth it and at the same time how do you know if it already had the crack unless you could tell in a real good close-up pic so there is also a 50/50 chance that it was not done in shipping but at the same time yes

 

[Superduper]

Everything you said is true. I thought about that as well. However, the outer box was already soft and the crumpled newspaper had already become flattened in the trip. I should also say that this is not a light radio and the specs say it's 25 pounds unpacked. Some balled up newspapers isn't going to do the job of protecting the inner box from shifting. Therefore, when I picked up the box to move it into the house, I could feel the inner box shifting and smashing against the outer box. The crack could've been there previously but the seller was a member of the forum much more senior than myself and the defect was not disclosed. I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt that full disclosure was given. Perhaps I'm being naive here.

In any event, I've never had one boombox arrive bad when foam peanuts or styrofoam sheets or thick 1.5" to 2" bubble wrap was used as cushioning material. However, I would say I've had like 6 arrive with the paper stuff and so far, it looks like they've all been damaged. Maybe I'm cursed?

 

[Boom Shaka Laka]

No, you're not cursed. I don't know if my failure rate is 100%, but more often than not, paper cushioning means damage. I now specify to each seller in a message when I use Paypal, "Please wrap in several layers of bubblewrap, and place in a stiff box, stuffed on all four sides of the wrapped boombox with styrofoam packing peanuts." That advice works about half of the time (and I often word my request more artfully than that). The other half of the time I get crushed newspaper, no matter what I ask for. I also often get a boombox wrapped in Saran plastic wrap instead of bubblewrap (which protects it against only one thing: dust). When I first see this sort of packing, and before I remove the boombox, I tilt the cardboard box back and forth a few times to check for rattles - the sound of floating pieces of plastic - and they're usually there. If not, that is still no sign of safety. The damage has simply taken the form of a crack in the unit, like yours.

I know of no solution to this problem, if sellers don't listen to specific packing requests. Some buyers send extra money and beg sellers to buy/use the right stuff. Maybe doing so at least increases the odds that a seller will listen to/follow a packing request. I don't know.

My conclusion is that, for many sellers, no amount of advice/suggestions/pleading will help. The simple problem is: some people are cheap. The same thing that makes people brag about how they just got new siding on their house for under $500, or get their lawn cut each week by a lawn service that charges only $18 per cut (my neighbor), or talked a garage sale host (me) down from fifty cents to a quarter for a box of pencils... that same personality trait will keep some people (cheap people) from going out and buying styrofoam peanuts. Not when there's old newspaper lying around!

In a recent PM to Ira (redbenjoe), and in a moment of total despair, I lamented:
As collectors, we brag a lot about how our mission in life is to rescue boomboxes for posterity. Sounds very noble. Trouble is, with all the shipping we require - often from very inexperienced packers - I wonder if we're not responsible for breaking as many boomboxes as we save.

P.S. The same damage results when sellers substitute sheets of hard, broken-up styrofoam (the kind of hard sheets that make thousands of tiny balls that explode into a room when you open up the carton, and that get into everything, including every groove on the boombox, provide no cushioning, and cost nothing [nirvana for the cheap seller] because they come in boxes of other stuff people buy) for soft packing peanuts.

 

[MasterBlaster84]

Double boxing is great but newspaper is not a good packing material. It's soft, doesn't hold it's shape, isn't resilient and therefore doesn't absorb blows or create a protective barrier. The heavier the item the less likely newspaper will protect it.

 

[MONOLITHIC]

Found that out first hand when I got my Toyota (the heaviest box of any box I've ever owned) awhile back... Ended up with a nice long crack in the back/side. Luckily, there was no other damage. When it was time for me to get my next box, I told them and sent them pictures on how to double box and bubble wrap a box and they still sent the next 3 boxes in the same fashion as before, but when I got 'em, there were no damages.

I kinda think that packing with paper is done 'cause it's a material they don't have to pay for - just take a bunch of old newspapers, crumple 'em up and there it is.

Paper sucks!

 

[Johnny]

I am one of the buyers that send extra money with a description of how to package it also. I assure them that I don't want them to lose money on shipping because they only charge 25-30 $$.... I also make deal that if they listen and package well and I get my box perfect with no damage and as described I will give them a bonus.. no joke.... if I buy a box its one I really want, so its worth it to me to get it one piece!

 

[redbenjoe]

wow --i just read everything here --
this is such an important topic ---

johnnies $$ BONUS plan --is very clever -
-that way - the seller is on our team.

i think that a promise for an extra $25 or so --
MIGHT convince a seller to pack with care-

----------------------------------
the most unpredictable factor ==
how much pure good/bad luck
is involved -- no matter how good/bad its packed

 

[71spud]

Hey Johnny... where's my bonus???

 

[redbenjoe]

Hey Johnny... where's my bonus???

same here $$$
|-) |-) |-)

 

[Radio raheem]

Hey Johnny... where's my bonus???

same here $$$
|-) |-) |-)

Money money money is that all people think of?

what is more important money or sex?

 

[MONOLITHIC]

what is more important money or sex?

Money, hands down, is ALWAYS more important than sex! Besides, if need be, money can buy sex.

 

[redbenjoe]

money > sex

slam-dunk

 

[Radio raheem]

what is more important money or sex?

Money, hands down, is ALWAYS more important than sex! Besides, if need be, money can buy sex.

haha that's where i have been going wrong then, i need loadsa money but realy both dont bother me never had loadsa coin never will and sex, well a joint dont nag

 

[redbenjoe]

fftopic: olice: :judge: :spam: :dog: :gathering:

 

[Radio raheem]

fftopic: olice: :judge: :spam: :dog: :gathering:

Like your alwats on topic lad i was speaking metabolicly of course

 

[Boom Shaka Laka]

and place in a stiff box, stuffed on all four sides of the wrapped boombox with styrofoam packing peanuts

My wife just reminded me that boomboxes are 3-dimensional and, as such, have at least six sides. (Some, like Sencors, being oddly shaped, have more, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICyZ4u8GNu8.)

Back to geometry class for me.

Sorry for the interruption. Now, on with the discussion...

 

[Superduper]

No, you're not cursed. I don't know if my failure rate is 100%, but more often than not, paper cushioning means damage. I now specify to each seller in a message when I use Paypal, "Please wrap in several layers of bubblewrap, and place in a stiff box, stuffed on all four sides of the wrapped boombox with styrofoam packing peanuts." That advice works about half of the time (and I often word my request more artfully than that). The other half of the time I get crushed newspaper, no matter what I ask for. I also often get a boombox wrapped in Saran plastic wrap instead of bubblewrap (which protects it against only one thing: dust). When I first see this sort of packing, and before I remove the boombox, I tilt the cardboard box back and forth a few times to check for rattles - the sound of floating pieces of plastic - and they're usually there. If not, that is still no sign of safety. The damage has simply taken the form of a crack in the unit, like yours.

I know of no solution to this problem, if sellers don't listen to specific packing requests. Some buyers send extra money and beg sellers to buy/use the right stuff. Maybe doing so at least increases the odds that a seller will listen to/follow a packing request. I don't know.

My conclusion is that, for many sellers, no amount of advice/suggestions/pleading will help. The simple problem is: some people are cheap. The same thing that makes people brag about how they just got new siding on their house for under $500, or get their lawn cut each week by a lawn service that charges only $18 per cut (my neighbor), or talked a garage sale host (me) down from fifty cents to a quarter for a box of pencils... that same personality trait will keep some people (cheap people) from going out and buying styrofoam peanuts. Not when there's old newspaper lying around!

In a recent PM to Ira (redbenjoe), and in a moment of total despair, I lamented:
As collectors, we brag a lot about how our mission in life is to rescue boomboxes for posterity. Sounds very noble. Trouble is, with all the shipping we require - often from very inexperienced packers - I wonder if we're not responsible for breaking as many boomboxes as we save.

P.S. The same damage results when sellers substitute sheets of hard, broken-up styrofoam (the kind of hard sheets that make thousands of tiny balls that explode into a room when you open up the carton, and that get into everything, including every groove on the boombox, provide no cushioning, and cost nothing [nirvana for the cheap seller] because they come in boxes of other stuff people buy) for soft packing peanuts.

Man, I concur with everything you just said. Most seller's aren't "open" to a buyer's shipping suggestion. In this case, I paid an extra $20 which I specifically stated was for improved sturdy packaging. The RS-4360dft is a very rare box and I'd think the seller would know this and want to prevent damage as much as I do. You'd see 20 JVC RC-M90's on ebay before one of these guys pop up. But my beef isn't on this transaction. It's about this problem in general which I feel is very widespread.

AFTER THE DAMAGE: Seller's invariably get very defensive when told of damage and insist it's not their fault and to file a shipping claim. UPS and Fedex will not pay on claims like this. I filed claims before and it's simply not a good experience. The last time (was on a 65lb test instrument) the damaged item was packed in a cardboard box no bigger than the device itself. Literally felt like stripping a pair of jeans off some thick thighs! UPS asked me to photograph everything and email to them. I spent at least 2 hours on the phone talking to 4 different agents. Then needed to come out to inspect everything again requiring me to take the day off from work. In the end, on any claim, if and when it's approved, they take the thing away and the seller gets their money back. HOW DOES THAT HELP ME, THE BUYER? I always buy insurance for valuables but for me, it's more to ensure of lost and theft, not damage. And yes, things do get lost. On one sale, I had 3 out of 4 car rims arrive, the last was never found.

 

[MONOLITHIC]

^ Damn, that's f*cked up!

 

[Johnny]

Hey Johnny... where's my bonus???

Only applies to sellers that I know that DON'T KNOW HOW TO BOX /PACKAGE CORRECTLY - you and Ira love the boxes you sell, so I can always trust you to take care of them

I highly recommend the practice if don't know the guy on the other end will take care of you, offer a little incentive.