New Lower Cassette Drawers (Part II)

[harry.stone1111]

Good news and bad news. We have fixed the flat trim to look pretty good. Also, we've installed a metal rear pin which is an improvement over the original. The drawer itself is much stronger than original drawers and so they should take a lot more wear and tear. The bad news is that the front corners look imprecise stacked plastic and it is getting harder to fine-tune the printer to do better.

I had a moment of frustration and weakness where I was ready to give up. We can do a little better and we're still working on it.

I guess I could use some support. If someone is interested in us finishing this work, please let me know. The idea of building these drawers seemed to draw a lot of excitement and suddenly I'm not seeing it. Am I doing this for nothing? I wanted to help a lot of people who have incomplete boxes like mine. If no one is interested, I'll fix my box and figure out some way to compensate my buddy and call it done. Literally nobody has shown any real interest and I've got hundreds of dollars tied up in that. My mistake, but I guess I need to know if it's worth trying to make it repeatable and efficient. It is hard work to fine tune it.

Alrighty folks. That's that.

 

[harry.stone1111]

I edited my original note.

 

[Transistorized]

Hi harry.stone1111

I am sure there are plenty of friends on here needing a lower drawer that would love an opportunity to get one at a reasonable price. A reasonable price varies from one person to another depending on finances but I would think around 50 USD (including shipping) for an aftermarket part which is a perfect looking, fitting and working example on eBay might be reasonable enough for folks to consider. If it is costing you more than that to make and perfect them and it is starting to pinch your wallet, I would hold off until you get an accepted price per drawer from members who need one with order commitments and down payments before you proceed.

IMO I would think over 50 dollars would start to become difficult to sell. Maybe not. I have seen originals sell for 100 or so to those who are desperate.

 

[harry.stone1111]

Thank you for that feedback. Maybe people are put off at the high price I've suggested.

 

[harry.stone1111]

Well the latest print improved the corners significantly and I was able to use files to smooth out the corners. This looks pretty rough but the lines can be sanded out. The problem was the extremely bumpy corners. We improved the software to reduce the overall bumpiness to start with and I was able to use a file to smooth out what was left. Not too much work to it. The only thing left is a little bit of polishing and sanding. Getting rid of the exposed lines aren't too big of a deal really. This is a test drawer that I was experimenting on which is why it is missing the pin in the rear. I've got a bunch of throw away drawers that won't meet the final cut, but maybe I can make some sort of modern art sculpture with them later, lol.


You can't really see how good this work is but here's some pictures anyways. We're getting there for sure.

 

[Superduper]

Thank you for that feedback. Maybe people are put off at the high price I've suggested.

If you are receptive for some friendly advice, then consider the following and if you find such advice unwelcome, then just ignore it and think of it as if it never happened:

A) There are many members with broken or missing drawers. However, that does not mean that every one of them will pay "any" price to replace them. Some folks paid a lot of money for their boombox, but not everyone did. If they paid $50, $100, $250 for their entire boombox, they probably will find $100 for an aftermarket tray, that is a cosmetic issue, simply too steep for their liking. IF they paid $1000 for their boombox and they value it for it's originality, they probably would prefer to find an original instead.

B) Replacement trays come up for sale occasionally, and I don't know if there is a average price, but $70 - $100 seems about right. One came up recently for... $100 and it sold for a "best offer" which means the actual sale price was under $100. It was an original product that came complete with spring and side guide pieces and the mounting screws. If an "original" sold for under $100 complete, and it wasn't like it was gone in minutes having sold through best offer, I think it fair to say that an aftermarket one might be valued at a little bit lower than a complete original. You simply must keep in mind that the current valuation is based on only 1 coming up for sale every now and then. If they were available every day of the week, the price and demand will plummet. If you are spitting them out of your machine on demand, you simply aren't going to be able to compete at a price point where people expect to only see one every now and then.

C) If you offer them for $30, you might make a couple dollars on each one and you'll spend all day making them trying to keep up with demand. But you aren't going to get rich like this, just get really busy, because you aren't going to sell thousands of them at that price, there simply aren't that many C100 boomboxes missing decks with owners desperate or caring enough to want to replace that tray. Remember the boombox will work fine without that tray and over time, you sort of get used to it and don't even see the missing part anymore. But I could see you selling 20 of them real quick, maybe 50 of them in the first year and maybe a total of 200 of them over a 5 year period. On the other hand, if you offer them for $50, you will probably, over the course of 5 years, sell 100~125 of them. Now, if you have visions of dollar signs from $100+ pricing, you might sell 2. Or 3, within the first month or two. Then over the course of 5 years, you might sell 15 of them, maybe a bit more. My advice, try to keep them at around $50 or less. That's about fair, and low enough not to discourage people from buying it and yet high enough to put a few bucks into your pocket and pay off that machine over time. Or you can try and sell for $100+, but I suspect only the most desperate of C100 owners will want to spring for it. Or someone has a nice one and wants to sell their boombox for top dollar, in which case, they might be willing to fork it over because it helps them get top dollar for their boombox. You'll still sell a couple now and then but the sweet spot will be around 1/2 that. You'll make more money that way. In any event, I can't see you selling 200 of them at $100 each.


Now, I'm no fortune teller, but I've made stuff and sold stuff, to these same crowd, and I'm just telling you what I believe through experience. And while I believe what I say, still I could be right but also could be wrong. And the numbers I'm quoting... that includes marketing here, and through an alternate avenue such as on a website, or on eBay. If selling on eBay, be prepared to write off 15% of sales revenue for the cost of doing business. This includes fees and the inevitable ocassional rip off.

 

[harry.stone1111]

Thank you for that feedback. Maybe people are put off at the high price I've suggested.

If you are receptive for some friendly advice, then consider the following and if you find such advice unwelcome, then just ignore it and think of it as if it never happened:

A) There are many members with broken or missing drawers. However, that does not mean that every one of them will pay "any" price to replace them. Some folks paid a lot of money for their boombox, but not everyone did. If they paid $50, $100, $250 for their entire boombox, they probably will find $100 for an aftermarket tray, that is a cosmetic issue, simply too steep for their liking. IF they paid $1000 for their boombox and they value it for it's originality, they probably would prefer to find an original instead.

B) Replacement trays come up for sale occasionally, and I don't know if there is a average price, but $70 - $100 seems about right. One came up recently for... $100 and it sold for a "best offer" which means the actual sale price was under $100. It was an original product that came complete with spring and side guide pieces and the mounting screws. If an "original" sold for under $100 complete, and it wasn't like it was gone in minutes having sold through best offer, I think it fair to say that an aftermarket one might be valued at a little bit lower than a complete original. You simply must keep in mind that the current valuation is based on only 1 coming up for sale every now and then. If they were available every day of the week, the price and demand will plummet. If you are spitting them out of your machine on demand, you simply aren't going to be able to compete at a price point where people expect to only see one every now and then.

C) If you offer them for $30, you might make a couple dollars on each one and you'll spend all day making them trying to keep up with demand. But you aren't going to get rich like this, just get really busy, because you aren't going to sell thousands of them at that price, there simply aren't that many C100 boomboxes missing decks with owners desperate or caring enough to want to replace that tray. Remember the boombox will work fine without that tray and over time, you sort of get used to it and don't even see the missing part anymore. But I could see you selling 20 of them real quick, maybe 50 of them in the first year and maybe a total of 200 of them over a 5 year period. On the other hand, if you offer them for $50, you will probably, over the course of 5 years, sell 100~125 of them. Now, if you have visions of dollar signs from $100+ pricing, you might sell 2. Or 3, within the first month or two. Then over the course of 5 years, you might sell 15 of them, maybe a bit more. My advice, try to keep them at around $50 or less. That's about fair, and low enough not to discourage people from buying it and yet high enough to put a few bucks into your pocket and pay off that machine over time. Or you can try and sell for $100+, but I suspect only the most desperate of C100 owners will want to spring for it. Or someone has a nice one and wants to sell their boombox for top dollar, in which case, they might be willing to fork it over because it helps them get top dollar for their boombox. You'll still sell a couple now and then but the sweet spot will be around 1/2 that. You'll make more money that way. In any event, I can't see you selling 200 of them at $100 each.


Now, I'm no fortune teller, but I've made stuff and sold stuff, to these same crowd, and I'm just telling you what I believe through experience. And while I believe what I say, still I could be right but also could be wrong. And the numbers I'm quoting... that includes marketing here, and through an alternate avenue such as on a website, or on eBay. If selling on eBay, be prepared to write off 15% of sales revenue for the cost of doing business. This includes fees and the inevitable ocassional rip off.

Thank you for that feedback. Maybe people are put off at the high price I've suggested.

If you are receptive for some friendly advice, then consider the following and if you find such advice unwelcome, then just ignore it and think of it as if it never happened:

A) There are many members with broken or missing drawers. However, that does not mean that every one of them will pay "any" price to replace them. Some folks paid a lot of money for their boombox, but not everyone did. If they paid $50, $100, $250 for their entire boombox, they probably will find $100 for an aftermarket tray, that is a cosmetic issue, simply too steep for their liking. IF they paid $1000 for their boombox and they value it for it's originality, they probably would prefer to find an original instead.

B) Replacement trays come up for sale occasionally, and I don't know if there is a average price, but $70 - $100 seems about right. One came up recently for... $100 and it sold for a "best offer" which means the actual sale price was under $100. It was an original product that came complete with spring and side guide pieces and the mounting screws. If an "original" sold for under $100 complete, and it wasn't like it was gone in minutes having sold through best offer, I think it fair to say that an aftermarket one might be valued at a little bit lower than a complete original. You simply must keep in mind that the current valuation is based on only 1 coming up for sale every now and then. If they were available every day of the week, the price and demand will plummet. If you are spitting them out of your machine on demand, you simply aren't going to be able to compete at a price point where people expect to only see one every now and then.

C) If you offer them for $30, you might make a couple dollars on each one and you'll spend all day making them trying to keep up with demand. But you aren't going to get rich like this, just get really busy, because you aren't going to sell thousands of them at that price, there simply aren't that many C100 boomboxes missing decks with owners desperate or caring enough to want to replace that tray. Remember the boombox will work fine without that tray and over time, you sort of get used to it and don't even see the missing part anymore. But I could see you selling 20 of them real quick, maybe 50 of them in the first year and maybe a total of 200 of them over a 5 year period. On the other hand, if you offer them for $50, you will probably, over the course of 5 years, sell 100~125 of them. Now, if you have visions of dollar signs from $100+ pricing, you might sell 2. Or 3, within the first month or two. Then over the course of 5 years, you might sell 15 of them, maybe a bit more. My advice, try to keep them at around $50 or less. That's about fair, and low enough not to discourage people from buying it and yet high enough to put a few bucks into your pocket and pay off that machine over time. Or you can try and sell for $100+, but I suspect only the most desperate of C100 owners will want to spring for it. Or someone has a nice one and wants to sell their boombox for top dollar, in which case, they might be willing to fork it over because it helps them get top dollar for their boombox. You'll still sell a couple now and then but the sweet spot will be around 1/2 that. You'll make more money that way. In any event, I can't see you selling 200 of them at $100 each.


Now, I'm no fortune teller, but I've made stuff and sold stuff, to these same crowd, and I'm just telling you what I believe through experience. And while I believe what I say, still I could be right but also could be wrong. And the numbers I'm quoting... that includes marketing here, and through an alternate avenue such as on a website, or on eBay. If selling on eBay, be prepared to write off 15% of sales revenue for the cost of doing business. This includes fees and the inevitable ocassional rip off.

I think your advice is spot on. I think I'm sort of done with the whole for-profit deal on this. I feel dumb for talking about it this much really. People come on here and just want to advance their hobby. It seemed like a straightforward proposition originally. I want a drawer and I wasn't seeing any for sale. I was willing to pay a premium so I figured others would too. It being a one-time cost for something nearly impossible to get otherwise. Not that I thought I'd retire from it but it seemed like it might be a win-win. Either way, there's a thing about how you can believe something is worth something and go down with that idea. If people aren't willing to pay what you think it's worth, then you're wrong. So in any case, I'm approaching this with a different attitude. I want to finish the project and will offer them for a lower price.

 

[baddboybill]

Awesome!!! It does look pretty nice. Great job and if I ever need one I know where I can get 1...

 

[harry.stone1111]

A little bit more experimenting with sanding other Plastic smoothing methods. Looking pretty good. I put a piece of trim up for effect. This is a discard drawer that I'm practicing on. I'm going to have to buy another roll of filament because we burned through out first grey roll without getting to the quality we wanted.

Also, same drawer as above with all the cassettes in it.

 

[Superduper]

I think anyone that has a C100 with a missing drawer (that isn’t otherwise minty or collectors quality) would be thrilled with one of these, even if less than 100% matching or perfect. Frankly, I would be fine with nothing more than a proper fitting piece of aluminum angle strip to fill the gap. No matter what you do, it will always be an aftermarket replacement so there comes a point of diminishing returns and where good enough is...... good enough.

The resolution of filament type hobby printers will never match the commercial versions or the laser in bath type of printers.

 

[Dbzerk]

Love the effort and the result of your work.

Just curious... how long does it take to print up one of those..

 

[harry.stone1111]

The print itself takes about 12 hours. We had to slow down the printer a lot because the most visible part of the drawer is also the area with the most turns (times the printer head has to change directions). So it was hard to keep it precise rattling around over that surface like that. This is why the lines of the longer surfaces are so much better to begin with. Unfortunately, we are unable to slow it down in just that one area so the whole print is slow.

12 hours gets 1 rough drawer made.

 

[Hisrudeness]

A great effort and an interesting post. It’s amazing that this type of printing exists. I see that even classic car restorers are printing knobs and trim for vintage cars nowadays.

As for price, I don’t know. If I needed one then I guess I would be happy paying up to $70-80 or so. If there’s one box where you would do well with this part then it’s the c100 and it’s aka’s. There seems to be a zillion of them still in existence!

 

[harry.stone1111]

Thank you for the kind words. Hisrudeness, I hoped this would help a lot of people out and maybe me and my buddy could make a few bucks on the side. I will be happy with just helping people out now and the closer we can get to breaking even, that is gravy.

I have done enough experimenting to prove to myself that it can be brought up to a high level of quality with a little elbow grease. Also, you don't have to be extremely technically proficient to do so. So we have a couple of good drawers printed. When the rear pin inserts are installed, I'm going to work one of them and make it really nice. That one is going in my box permanently.

As for the rest of this enterprise, we're going to buy another roll of filament and print until it runs out. That'll get us about 10 drawers. I will offer them for sale as drawer restoration kits. That is, you get a working drawer and trim. The trim will not be attached but will have an adhesive backing ready for installation. The point being that the customer can sand, file, paint, whatever they think they need to do to reach the quality they desire. Once you're happy with your work, attach the trim and it's ready for install.

The reason for this is two-fold. First, the finishing work is just manual labor that I just don't want to do. Second, if I finish them people may be unhappy with what they get. They may expect a perfect reproduction of the original drawer, which it isn't. They may expect a higher level of detail than I can produce. Maybe the color isn't an exact match to their box. I don't want unhappy customers and therefore acknowledging that it will have flaws up front I think is the best way to do that. The level of detail on the finished product is up to them.

There is a third reason and that is based on feedback I've received here. It allows me to sell them for about $50 plus shipping (I'm guessing $5 for that). That, I hope, is in more people's price point. If I had to spend 2-4 hours polishing them, I'd want a lot more and I think most folks can understand that.

What I can promise is that the drawer will work to hold cassettes, will fit into the space, and will open and close if the spring/lock mechanism is installed correctly. The drawer will be stronger and less brittle than original. The rear pin less apt to breakage due to the metal insert. The color will be close to original and the trim will look good.

It is my opinion that an unfinished drawer installed right off the printer (with the trim) looks really good once installed on a box that was once missing its drawer. Only upon close examination of the drawer will you notice the ridges on the sides of the trim. So if they want to do nothing, that works. I will tell you I got my box back for Halloween (it had been at my buddy's house while we work on this) and it has an unfinished drawer in place. I was blown away at how good it looks compared to without the drawer. I'd only seen it in pictures since the drawer was put on. Nobody who isn't a C-100 fanatic would ever know it isn't from the factory just by looking at it. When the polishing is done, C-100 experts won't be fooled into thinking it's original, but will be impressed at how good it looks. That's the goal at least.

I'll publish pictures once I finish MY drawer. You all have a great night.

 

[Lasonic TRC-920]

Harry, don't get discouraged. What you have done is amazing and your not the first to create a part that many people need and then no one buys it. It simply boggles my mine. (I must preempt this by saying I have only one C100 and it has the drawer and I don't need one, sorry).

Time and time again I listen to collectors complain about the weaknesses of one particular model. "oh that piece is always missing" or "that part is always busted". The radios being mentioned always sell for a pittance of a complete or fully working example. I also see them post up their boomboxes missing said parts but almost never buy the part they need when the chance arises ALWAYS whining that it cost too much??? Yet if they HAD said missing part/fully working box, then the value of their box would go up considerably!!!

I am always stunned that no one jumps on it. Original part or not, complete with **special circumstances** is still better than any missing parts IMO. Especially the C100 with notoriously missing tape drawer and lower deck door. It just seems like a no brainer. And like this situation, when it's gone....IT'S GONE!

I know you have invested allot of money already, but I think there is yet another option to go and that is to sell a complete kit.

Boomboxery member CAUTION sells the aluminum trim and decal for the tray. Maybe if you also print the slide runner, find a spring and partner all these parts, $100 complete (needing assembly) would be another way to go.

Or maybe no one cares to have their boxes complete. I can't stand to look at boxes missing knobs or parts.

Either way, thanks for your hard work on this project

 

[harry.stone1111]

Thank you for the advice. It's amazing how much tuning it takes to get these things right. We have at least a dozen drawers right now which would look better than an empty slot but we're still working towards something closer to perfect. So that is the hold up at the moment. We can make it to where all the visible parts are perfect looking. The problem is that some people will want the non-visible parts and parts only visible under close examination perfect as well. We'll never get there but we're trying to get close as possible. We're nearly at the point to where we can't improve it much more. So you'll see them up for sale soon. Not sure about the marketing strategy, pricing or how we'll present them. I will just be as honest a's possible and see how it goes.

 

[harry.stone1111]

So a little status update. We were going to start printing what would be our finished product when the 3D printer broke. Additionally, personal and professional obligations took our attention away. In about 2 weeks, we will be in a place to start working the issues. The printer should be repairable and I am hopeful to have drawers available in time for Christmas. Here's hoping!

 

[blu_fuz]

I agree that you should team up with Caution and make the drawers complete. You are in a little bit of a pickle wanting to keep the price as cheap as you can but also cover your time, material, and QC. If you price them too cheap, non-members are likely to take advantage of your good deal and buy from you ONLY to jack the price up and relist them on ebay for profit. I had people do that with the straps I sell, they would buy the strap or just the hardware, re-strap it with JVC logo material and pass them off as originals for big profit on ebay. OR, you could set the price as you wish and only allow the members that you want be able to purchase from you.

Whatever you decide, just do what's best for you.

 

[caution]

Oh yeah, I should post an update.... lol

A couple weeks back I got some new tray trims cut at a waterjet shop. About a third cheaper than laser. The edges aren't nice and smooth, kinda rough actually, but works just as well. They're all scribed, bent one and it fits great.

 

[Superduper]

I think Harry might be either trying too hard to make the trays too perfect, or if his printer is not producing satisfactory output, maybe consider using a commercial 3D print service, which although costs more to produce, in the long run, might be a better alternative because at least you won't have the long term maintenance and amortization expense of the printer itself.