Is it possible?

[Transistorized]

Can anyone tell me if a high end box is capable of generating frequencies that are outside of the human hearing range and that could damage your hearing? Most are not capable of producing low end beyond hearing range so I am more generally speaking of higher frequencies of 16khz and above.

I am well aware that lower frequencies we cannot hear will damage hearing, what about super high frequencies such as ultrasonic and such? We cannot hear those but just like low frequencies we cannot hear, does it still do damage without us knowing?

Let me explain what prompted this. I recorded a tape with a little more positive bias than what the "optimal" setting on my recorder showed for the tape. My reason for doing this was because I was trying to duplicate the brightness of the original source. I succeeded but I noticed something when playing the tape in my M90. Even at lower volume levels, I start to feel fatigue. I do have tinnitus do a degree but it seems as though (with this tape specifically) that I notice a very high pitched white noise in my ears when the tape stops playing. It takes quite a while to get to feeling normal again.

I find it difficult that my M90 could be shooting out ultrasonic frequencies but who knows. Your also talking about an individual who was able to cut their eye with a napkin while wiping his mouth at dinner time.

So, is it all in my head or what? I am aware that no instruments being recorded onto tape are going to produce sounds above the hearing range but I am wondering about the AC bias frequency being put onto the tape during recording.

 

[floyd]

coustic makes a real time analyzer that basically shows you a graph of the actual frequency being produced at the listening level .
I know my Sanyo c7 tweeters are capable of making your ears ring but it sounds great .

 

[Reli]

I'm sure plenty of boxes, especially some good 3-pieces, could do it......but the source material needs to actually contain those frequencies. According to service manuals, tape deck frequency response really peters out after 12-14K on "average" boomboxes, or 16-17K on higher-quality ones. And then the speakers need to be able to reproduce it. Who knows. But ultrasonic? 20K+? Doubt it, unless we're talking a good quality 3-piece like the Telefunken.

Also how loud are you playing it, and how close are you sitting next to it?

 

[BoomboxLover48]

Most young people's hearing cuts off at around 18KHz.
Older people can only hear frequencies of up to 15KHz.
It's very rare for people to be able to hear 20KHz directly.
The last time I had a hearing test my right ear can only respond upto 4.5KHz, but left ear can go as high as around 12KHz.

The hearing aid I got for a very high price will not respond anything over 8KHz. Crooks won't say this in the beginning when you go to Miracle ear.

Coming to the point..... I think your ears and brain will strain to detect the missing range and cause fatigue (I could be wrong).
Pretty much like we squint when you cannot see clearly.

Some boomboxes when the treble is turned all the way up gives me a headache.


One thing I have noticed with high end home theater system is that it won't give me a headache. It has to do with how close the boombox is to the listener, like Reli pointed out.

I have a 9.2 surround state of the art home theater system with several 1000 Watts, it is so peaceful to my ears. Boomboxes always give me a headache when I listen to it for a while with treble turned all the way up.

 

[thinkchronicity]

Interesting topic. I think the short answer is if you increase the bias amplitude above the optimum, firstly recorded distortion will go down a little, and then if you keep going, start to significantly increase above the original level. More harmonic distortion, including the odd numbered harmonics, will create ear fatigue - i.e. stress for your nervous system upon which tinnitus feeds off.

https://electronaut.info/harmonic-distortion-musically-speaking/

Technical bulletin #3
http://www.ant-audio.co.uk/index.php?cat=post&qry=library

 

[Transistorized]

Thanks guys. I would say that I had the M90 on a volume setting of 4 and was sitting 8 feet away. I usually keep my treble on all my boxes all the way up. Maybe it's because my hearing is losing high end as I age but here lately I've been knocking off Dolby even on dolby recordings just because it sounds too muffled to me.

I've listened to the same tape on my other boxes at a much lower volume since then and haven't noticed any fatigue. The mighty M has tweeters than can wake the dead or set fire to a piece of paper (a joke) so maybe I was just too loud and too close. The tape hits into the +4 and +5db range so a volume setting of 4 would probably normally be a 5 or 6 on that same box with a +1db range recording

 

[Radio raheem]

best place for the m90 is on you're lap flat out lol, it can wake the dead er i mean deaf

 

[Superduper]

Hearing range varies from person to person. If you are older and have listened to music loud for extended periods in your life, your sensitivity (thus high hearing range) is probably lower. It's not high (or low) frequencies themselves that hurt your ears/hearing, it's the loudness level and exposure over time. What you are experiencing is listener fatigue. Too loud, for too long. It's your ears telling you they are worn out from the loudness. Turn it down and give your ears a rest. Sometimes, silence is golden. As you get older, your ears aren't as resilient as when they are younger. The human ear has a tendon that is able to pull back and "attenuate" loud noises. It protects your hearing from excessively loud sounds. If that tendon is getting a workout, they will get fatigued.

My ears, both of them, have had surgery to replace the middle ear. That means all the tiny bones and other stuff between the ear drums and inner ear has been removed and replaced with a teflon implant. Frankly, I don't even know how they are able to do such a surgery going through the little ear canal. In any event, in the process of removing the middle ear parts, this tendon is cut and my ears have lost the ability to self attenuate. This means that I can't go to concerts without some ear protection, and sometimes, motorcycles that decides to suddenly gun the motor from a short distance away will be excruciatingly painful. One time, a biker guy decided to just gun it and I thought my ear drums got blown out, it sounded like an explosion. I couldn't hear for a short time thereafter but nearby folks just looked and walked away like it was annoying and nothing more.

You could turn down the treble if that frequency range is louder than your ears like (and different people react differently), and the M90 has terrific tweeters. It could also be your tape or tape deck. Natural sounds rarely generate fatigue but if you are hearing white noise, or distortion, it is a constant noise, unlike the momentary cymbal or other treble strikes. A constant white noise or hiss, that is loud over time can certainly cause fatigue. Even though you can only "identify" the white noise during pauses in the music program, it is present in the background, just hidden by the regular music, but the noise is still present and doing it's wonders on your ear drums.

I suggest you just learn to listen at a lower level. 4 on an M90 is pretty loud if for a long period of time. It's like salt. Once you get used to it, you need it or else stuff just doesn't taste good. But once you slowly wean yourself down, you'll find that stuff actually tastes just fine without all that extra salt. In fact, stuff will taste "too" salty at the old level after you cut down for awhile. I listen to music on my radio next to my computer while I work but probably only at a level of 1-2 (M90 equivalent). Occasionally I like to blast for a certain track that I particularly like but not on a constant basis. There are a lot of age related changes that I have had to adjust to, and not all are welcome but it's just a fact of adjusting to this thing called life.

 

[Transistorized]

Hearing range varies from person to person. If you are older and have listened to music loud for extended periods in your life, your sensitivity (thus high hearing range) is probably lower. It's not high (or low) frequencies themselves that hurt your ears/hearing, it's the loudness level and exposure over time. What you are experiencing is listener fatigue. Too loud, for too long. It's your ears telling you they are worn out from the loudness. Turn it down and give your ears a rest. Sometimes, silence is golden. As you get older, your ears aren't as resilient as when they are younger. The human ear has a tendon that is able to pull back and "attenuate" loud noises. It protects your hearing from excessively loud sounds. If that tendon is getting a workout, they will get fatigued.

My ears, both of them, have had surgery to replace the middle ear. That means all the tiny bones and other stuff between the ear drums and inner ear has been removed and replaced with a teflon implant. Frankly, I don't even know how they are able to do such a surgery going through the little ear canal. In any event, in the process of removing the middle ear parts, this tendon is cut and my ears have lost the ability to self attenuate. This means that I can't go to concerts without some ear protection, and sometimes, motorcycles that decides to suddenly gun the motor from a short distance away will be excruciatingly painful. One time, a biker guy decided to just gun it and I thought my ear drums got blown out, it sounded like an explosion. I couldn't hear for a short time thereafter but nearby folks just looked and walked away like it was annoying and nothing more.

You could turn down the treble if that frequency range is louder than your ears like (and different people react differently), and the M90 has terrific tweeters. It could also be your tape or tape deck. Natural sounds rarely generate fatigue but if you are hearing white noise, or distortion, it is a constant noise, unlike the momentary cymbal or other treble strikes. A constant white noise or hiss, that is loud over time can certainly cause fatigue. Even though you can only "identify" the white noise during pauses in the music program, it is present in the background, just hidden by the regular music, but the noise is still present and doing it's wonders on your ear drums.

I suggest you just learn to listen at a lower level. 4 on an M90 is pretty loud if for a long period of time. It's like salt. Once you get used to it, you need it or else stuff just doesn't taste good. But once you slowly wean yourself down, you'll find that stuff actually tastes just fine without all that extra salt. In fact, stuff will taste "too" salty at the old level after you cut down for awhile. I listen to music on my radio next to my computer while I work but probably only at a level of 1-2 (M90 equivalent). Occasionally I like to blast for a certain track that I particularly like but not on a constant basis. There are a lot of age related changes that I have had to adjust to, and not all are welcome but it's just a fact of adjusting to this thing called life.

Very true my friend. I might not want to admit it but I think it's time I tone my music down a little. I have always been a...rattle the windows...type of person. But all the years of this type of mentality is catching up with me. This hobby won't be as enjoyable if I can't hear so I need to heed your advice.

My satisfaction for this hobby comes from 3 main driving forces.

1: The music which brings back memories of (see number two)
2: The people in my life & the history when I was growing up. I grew up in the best darn decade EVER IMO The 80's
3: The machine.

I enjoy watching a machine come to life after I repair it. Most all of my boxes were projects. I like the cassette decks to work because I can envision all the moving parts in my head while its playing. And, when something fails, I can usually narrow it down in my head based on the issue and visualize the failed part. Kinda like the Matrix..lol..and then the challenge is to MacGyver it back to health. Heck I repaired a VCR mode switch with 3 staples, a lighter, needle nosed pliers and super glue

So to take away my ability to hear would kill 1/3 of the fun for me. I need to take better care of my hearing and so I start to think about it more now than I used to.

 

[Ghettoboom767]

Very well said Norm! I agree,as I get older I listen to for the most of the time at low to mid volumes,I occasionally will play it somewhat loud for particular rare ‘specual’ songs!
I do remember when I was in HS my electronics teacher had a signal generator,he started at sbout 20Hz. Very low,I could hear it but mostly felt it,then when he went to 15 then 10 I got a stomach ache! Then when he went about 17,000 it started to be somewhat painful,at 18,000 worse! At 20,000 i was the only one/I had to leave the room!
Yes I had and still do have fanrastic hearing!
(For instance,Prince’s sound board crew at First Ave.was asking me on some of the sounds and instruments on how each levels should be at!😊😎🎶🎼🎼 I always appreciated that😎