FM radio reception help

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docs

Member (SA)
Hi,

With 4 bands on this radio all work except for FM reception.
Could anyone point me in the right direction at all please ? I've checked for dry joints as best I can and can't find any problems.
Am I right in thinking that FM is the only band that uses the antenna ? What could be some good checks to troubleshoot please ?

many thanks
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
Anything beyond the simple things becomes a complex issue. So start with deoxit, checking for broken solder joints (like you did), checking for continuity in the traces, broken wires, etc.

If all that fails, then it's likely component failure on the board. Yes, FM is probably the only band that uses the extendable antennas, but even if NO antenna was connected, FM should not be dead.
 

docs

Member (SA)
Thanks for the response Superduper. Once switched to FM all that is heard is white noise. Not any feint sound of a station at all.
I can try a bit of sray on the selector switch but it seems ok. Failing that, I guess I need to learn how to check components on the board with my multimeter and trace backwards which components are in use for FM somehow.
 

docs

Member (SA)
Thankfully a simple replacement of 3 capacitors that looked iffy on the tuner board resulted in a fully working FM stereo TEC 878RR Super Jumbo.

:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:

P1020872.jpg
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
Almost every electrolytic capacitor in a tuner circuit is in the audio stage. So my guess is that the tuner receiving portion was working fine but the decoded audio wasn't being passed.
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
Ramon. Tuner theory of operation is extremely complex and difficult to understand. Therefore, I would say technical tuner discussion is probably beyond the scope of this forum and better suited to the more geeky forums populated by tech-heads.

But in anwer to your question about AFC, AFC (automatic frequency control) is a circuit frequently used to counteract a phenomenon called oscillator drift. It is used only on FM and not AM circuitry. The reason is due to the fact that oscillator drift is a greater problem with higher frequencies and FM operates at far higher frequencies than AM.

Almost all modern FM tuners are superheterodyne receivers. That means the antenna signal is mixed (heterodyned) with another signal to obtain a third frequency whose frequency equals the difference between the two original frequencies. The antenna signal mixes with the second frequency provided by the local oscillator to produce the IF signal. By arranging the local oscillator to be tuned to a higher frequency by a constant amount than the antenna frequency, the net difference should also be constant. The way both the antenna frequency and oscillator frequency is kept consistently constant (for a net difference) is by using a common tuning control to simultaneously vary both the antenna and local oscillator frequency and therefore track so that the same IF frequency is always produced. The FM IF frequency is almost always 10.7mhz. On AM the IF frequency is typically 455khz.

The reason for converting the FM signal to the IF signal is that since the IF amplifier operates at only one frequency, it can be economically designed to produce a high gain and narrow bandwidth.

Anyhow, hopefully you now understand the importance of the local oscillator in generating a consistent and stable signal to feed to the mixer. However, inductance and capacitance values will increase in value due to thermal expansion as the operating temperature rises. Various methods are used to compensate for this instability. However, in addition to those countermethods, AFC circuitry is frequently used. No sense going into the details of AFC since we'll just bore everyone to death. But in a nutshell, the AFC circuit controls the oscillator frequency and therefore provide stability of the receiver tuning.

This is a very basic description of tuner operation. As you can see, the tuner is a complicated animal and haphazard adjustment of tuner adjustment locations can easily make things very messy. Making one adjustment often affects another. That's why I cringe when I read suggestions to play with (4) adjustments. Every tuner is different and there is NO magical 4 adjustments that will fix your tuner. In fact, although this is the basic theory behind how the tuner operates, every design is different and the adjustment locations and expected output is measured at different locations depending upon the engineer and designers of that particular tuner. That's why documentation is so important. Although you can have a basic understanding of the theory, you will still require servicing documentation for an effective and practical tuner adjustment/alignment.

Anyone interested in educating themselves further is encouraged to obtain a copy of THE THEORY AND SERVICING OF AM, FM AND FM STEREO RECEIVERS BY GREEN/BOURQUE. I feel this is probably the best publication available for anyone interested in the field of servicing radio tuners. Be advised that this book is not cheap, even used. Much of the information above was summarized from this book.
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
teamstress said:
Super, your detailed replies are NEVER boring.

Depends who's reading. If this is alien to the reader, none of this will make any sense and I imagine not much more than the first few lines will get read.
 

oldskool69

Moderator
Staff member
Superduper said:
teamstress said:
Super, your detailed replies are NEVER boring.

Depends who's reading. If this is alien to the reader, none of this will make any sense and I imagine not much more than the first few lines will get read.


Well your fellow alien gets it. ;-)
 

monchito

Boomus Fidelis
thank you norm for the great info ,, yes tuner are a animal of there own kind thats why its not the easy a fix most of the times unless you have the right knowleage and have the right equipment for alignment,, and on docs case he was lucky that with some caps he resolved the problem :thumbsup:
 

docs

Member (SA)
Yeh, just trying to see where the problem is with the right channel now. Thanks for the write up SD.
I think the tuner board is still the culprit as I can inject audio on each channel on the amp board from the tuner board inputs.
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
Try injecting an audio signal at the tuner board audio outs. If that is working, then try it one more time at the MPX decoder chip out for that channel. If still out, then I believe 90% likely the MPX decoder chip is bad. You'll need to look up the datasheet for the decoder to find out which pins is for the audio outputs.
 

docs

Member (SA)
Thanks, I just need to identify the multiplexer and try it. Because I don't quite understand what is what I'm struggling.
I have identified two of the three chips on the board but can not see the third because of its location. The two I know are Toshiba TA7640AP and a TA7358P front-end chip. I have diagrams of each of them.

However, this is evident on all radio modes and not just FM.
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
I can't help you identify a chip model just by looking at the edge of it -- they all look the same. Most of the time, the stereo decoder is the only IC on the tuner board and the front end is designed using discrete components. If your front end uses IC's, then it's a virtual certainty that the MPX decoder is also an IC as I've never seen the stereo decoder comprised of discrete components when the front end uses IC's. So if there is only 3-IC's in your tuner, then that last one will be it.

Anyhow, like I said, test the outputs at the tuner board first to see whether the issue is actually on the tuner board. It could simply be a broken connection at the wire tethering the board. If you've come to the conclusion that the problem is definitely in the tuner board, then that is the most likely culprit. In order to replace it, you'll need to remove it anyhow.

Essentially, a composite L/R signal gets fed to the multiplex decoder. That chip will "decode" the stereo signal and divide it to it's respective L or R audio signals and feeds those signals off to the preamplifier stages of the boombox.
 

docs

Member (SA)
Thanks SD, checked on some of those and found the issue to be a dry joint on the connector to the amp board. A tiny spec of solder later and its fixed 100%.
 
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