Carbon Conducive grease?

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trippy1313

Member (SA)
So in a week ill be starting the clean up of my M70... And I know a lot of you have said to use Deoxit, and maybe Faderlube for the sliders... My question is, ive read the faderlube is better for sliders but not perfect, have any of you used a carbon conductive grease after cleaning with deoxit???

Id think that might make the clean last longer than just the faderlube, but not positive. What do you all think/know?
 

BoomboxLover48

Boomus Fidelis
Most of these conductive greases contain carbon or metals like silver, copper, zinc etc suspended in a petroleum base.
If you test this grease as it is for conductivity (1/R) you might get no reading or a very very low reading depending on the metal flake concentration and its orientation in the grease.

I think most of them are designed mainly to protect surfaces from oxidation.

I would say it will be a good idea to try the silver containing conductive grease in a sliding control and see how that functions before trying on M70 sliders.

As you know those silver fine particle containing grease might be expensive.
 

trippy1313

Member (SA)
Okay. Well i guess maybe my question is more... What is a good grease or should i even use grease after cleaning with the Deoxit?
 

baddboybill

Boomus Fidelis
The person to ask might be Superduper as he has rebuilt M70 many times and the are simply amazing :thumbsup:


Bad Boy Bill
 

trippy1313

Member (SA)
baddboybill said:
The person to ask might be Superduper as he has rebuilt M70 many times and the are simply amazing :thumbsup:


Bad Boy Bill
Okay thanks!!! I just sent him a PM. I appreciate the help all of you are!!! Great site I'm enjoying it so far.
 

BoomboxLover48

Boomus Fidelis
I can bet Norm will say NOT to use it on contacts. :lol:

Grease will go to friction areas and not on electric contacts okay!

There are parts of M70 sliders that needs lube and contacts that do not. They both are different.

:lol:

One part of the slider is in a carriage that needs slip and the other part needs to establish electric contact.

From what I remember the feelers get in touch with the carbon resistance strip and the other arm on the slider is in touch with a common line in the circuit.
 

Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
I got your PM, I'm answering your question here so everyone can benefit from it, and so that I'm not answering it again and again in PM. If all you are doing is cleaning the controls, then what I recommend depends on how far apart you are planning on taking the boombox apart. If the slider control board stays mounted, then a tiny bit of deoxit, worked to clean off oxidation first, followed by a small burst of faderlube is all you need to do. Some amount of residue will remain inside.

If you want to clean off as much of the built up residue and grit inside of the control as possible, and you can remove the slider board from the boombox, then you can take the entire board to the bathroom sink. Using very hot water, run and flush it inside the controls and if you have access to a tiny paint brush, you can insert it into the control and clean what you can. I have an oral irrigator which works great on flushing out the foreign debris inside the controls. Once the controls has completely dried off, you can use deoxit followed up with faderlube.

The best way to clean these controls is to disassemble them. Sometimes I get a rebuild request and recieve the board dripping wet with solvent that I presume to be deoxit. I take it to the sink and clean as much as I can first since I hate working on dirty board dripping with chemicals but invariably, the innards remain very dirty once disassembled. There simply is no way to do a thorough cleaning without disassemly. The chemicals, once introduced, also is very hard to completely remove. In general, these Alps sliders were never the best quality to begin with and I would not be suprised if one or more has failed internally. If they still work, disassembling them can sometimes cause the feelers to fall off so you should know this risk. Most that I've seen are pretty loose by now and barely holding on. Anyhow, once disassembled, I usually clean the resistor boards with hot water, soap, and toothbrush. The resistors do not build up oxidation. Oxidation will present on the feeler surfaces, not the carbon. The feelers are then thoroughly cleaned, and if loose, i will add some plastic specific superglue. Use only the ones with activator. After that, I mechanically strip the oxidation. Depending on how badly oxidized, this may involve polish compound, steel wool, or emery cloth. Use common sense and only drag it in the opposite direction the feelers are facing. After that, clean again to make sure no residue remains. At that point, I lube the slides only with silicone grease. You can use dielectric grease used on distributors. Old school grease monkeys will remember this compound in the days of points and condensors. Or you can find silicone grease at RC hobby stores, or some electronic stores. DO NOT use any on the carbon surfaces.

Before re-assembly, I brush the carbon tracks and feelers with Deoxit GL surface preservative. It feels like thick oil and helps to guard against future oxidation formation. DO NOT disassemble the controls unless you intend to do a complete rebuild. The reason is that the tabs holding the control together can only be bent so many times before they snap off. Once or twice is all they can take. If you're gonna stress those tabs, you might as well do it so it will last another 20 or 30 years as slider disassembly is not a maintenance process. Sometimes, people will ask me if I will rebuild their controls AFTER they've had a go at it already. Typically, I will say no. Not only are the tabs likely to all snap off but the pins also tend to break off if they weren't removed properly the first time around. I then replace all of the electrolytic capacitors. Rebuilt like this, I have found that the controls perform very well and noticeable sound improvement has frequently been observed. Also because there is no more internal residue, recurrance of intermittent operation is greatly reduced. Future applications of deoxit should involve no more than a drop or two, if ever needed again. Feel is usually restored to like-new.

Contrary to popular belief, the feel of the control has nothing to do with the feelers and carbon tracks. All the feel comes from the grease on the slides. People frequently flood the controls like the red sea thereby stripping off all the grease. Deoxit is a solvent. How else do you think it will remove oxidation? I've always warned to use deoxit sparingly but nobody listens. You only need to wet the surface between the contact and work it. More will not work better.

As for you other question regarding conductive grease..... WHY? You should not use any grease on the carbon tracks. Not only that but there are two ground strips that run along both of the carbon strips. The feeler bridges the ground to the respective location of the resistor. How do you think introducing a conductive material that covers everything is going to work out and affect the electrical signal path? Think about that for a moment.
 

trippy1313

Member (SA)
Very very great response. I thought maybe a dielectric grease might be the other way, but i guess it'll really depend on how far into it i want to go. Thank you, ill be sure to read this over probably 5 times before i go screwing things up. Very thorough post!!!

I may be looking into getting your LED Kit you sell too, looks pretty simple, and gorgeous.
 

superlew

Member (SA)
I just finished re-assembling and re-installing the sliders on my M-70. The left feeler on the bass pot and the right feeler on the treble pot had copletely separated from the moving portion of the slider. I re-attached them using patience, a magnifying glass, and super glue (We'll see how long it holds, though it feels plenty strong). I had originally intended to only remove and disassemble the bass and treble pots, but when I saw the insides of the housings, I decided to do all six.

I used an artist brush to apply a somewhat heavy multi-purpose grease to the inside of the housing, but did not touch the electrical contact surfaces other than cleaning. I buttoned it back up last night and WOW! Massive improvement (the treble and bass pots really did the trick).

My apologies for not posting any pics. I was in deep concentration, so the camera was far from my mind, as the deed took organization, a steady hand, and magnification.

Disassembly is definitely the way to go, if you have the cajones and the patience. ;-)

I'm re-spraying the speaker grills on Saturday. I'll post pics of the restoration later this weekend or early next week.
A lot of "re-'s" in this post.
 

BoomboxLover48

Boomus Fidelis
superlew said:
I just finished re-assembling and re-installing the sliders on my M-70. The left feeler on the bass pot and the right feeler on the treble pot had copletely separated from the moving portion of the slider. I re-attached them using patience, a magnifying glass, and super glue (We'll see how long it holds, though it feels plenty strong). I had originally intended to only remove and disassemble the bass and treble pots, but when I saw the insides of the housings, I decided to do all six.

I used an artist brush to apply a somewhat heavy multi-purpose grease to the inside of the housing, but did not touch the electrical contact surfaces other than cleaning. I buttoned it back up last night and WOW! Massive improvement (the treble and bass pots really did the trick).

My apologies for not posting any pics. I was in deep concentration, so the camera was far from my mind, as the deed took organization, a steady hand, and magnification.

Disassembly is definitely the way to go, if you have the cajones and the patience. ;-)

I'm re-spraying the speaker grills on Saturday. I'll post pics of the restoration later this weekend or early next week.
A lot of "re-'s" in this post.
Great job!
 

trippy1313

Member (SA)
Superlew,
How long would you say assembly, repair/cleaning, and assembly took you? Im assuming ill talk a little longer since i haven't worked on one of these but it'll help me plan my attack. I know my way around a screwdriver and solder tools but not this box.
 

superlew

Member (SA)
The board is really easy to get out, once the chassis is pulled. If all goes well, it shouldn't take any more than 1 1/2 - 2 hrs. superduper is correct (as always) about the little tabs. The bass and treble pots have 8 solder points and the volume and record pots have 6. If the feelers are loose or separated, it may take a little longer. The feeler in the treble pot on mine was so mangled that I thought it was a dead spider for a second. And, like superduper said, if you need to re-attach any of them, use the plastic activator with the super glue to ensure a solid bond.
 

trippy1313

Member (SA)
Superduper said:
At that point, I lube the slides only with silicone grease. DO NOT use any on the carbon surfaces.

Before re-assembly, I brush the carbon tracks and feelers with Deoxit GL surface preservative.
Sorry if this is a silly question, but is the red arrow in this pic where i SHOULD silicone grease, being the slide/contact, and is the yellow arrow the carbon, or is the carbon not visible in this pic? I should know this I'm sure... but I don't, and I want to be safe.

I'm almost done, got my led kit installed, but gotta get the sliders cleaned up, and put it all back together.
 

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Superduper

Moderator
Staff member
No. DO NOT put any grease on either of those slides. The feelers are very fragile and will "float" above the grease causing poor/no connectivity. All of the feel of the slider is the result of lube on the white nylon block (look at the knob shaft) and the side (and small top lip) of the tin housing. It's very very difficult to lube it with the sliders assembled. But if you are careful, you can use a small paint brush, or a small piece of metal bent in some fashion so you can lightly brush the interior side of the metal slider housing.
 

trippy1313

Member (SA)
Okay I gotcha now, thanks again, that saves me. I see where you mean the nylon block. I'll get the hang of this boombox stuff soon enough I hope.
 
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