My GF-777Z ** Project PHAT-AZZZ BASS!!

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Superduper

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I did not say nothing is reproduced or usable below 70hz. I did say according to Sharps own specifications, they rate the bass amps starting at 70hz which suggests that it is not nearly optmized for 40hz, which is what YOU said. In fact, I made it clear that it was not a hard cut off, but rather a progressive roll off. If this system was strong at 40hz, Sharp (and any other manufacturer) would certainly advertise it.

As for 90w pmp (which is marketing hype) -- if you want to go with that and not RMS, then go right ahead. Might as well call it 300 watts super-pmp instead.

As for the specifications, I copied those directly from my factory original service manuals (I have 2 copies). I'm not motivated to go through the trouble of posting those here for you. You can believe it or not. There are pdf copies floating around. But it most definitely is 10% THD, a ratings point which virtualy all boomboxes use. You said yourself that you presumed 1% which you said is the standard rate used for amplifiers. Again, don't know where you got that impression from. There is no standardized THD point in which to rate amplifiers. Most home audio amps aren't even rated at anything above .25% or so.

As for the first diagram you showed, it is not a schematic. It is a block diagram which merely shows the intended circuit layout. It offers NO real circuitry. Think of a block diagram as representation of a circuit with blocks connected by lines showing the principle functions of each circuit and it's relationship with each other. They help to better understand how a circuit was designed. They do not generally include any details of the actual circuitry.

As for the second diagram, that is in fact a schematic. Unfortunately, you are reading it completely wrong. First, the preamp circuit isn't even on that diagram, it's on another diagram. What you are seeing is the power amplifier circuit. The HA1392 chips you see are the actual output chips. There are 2 chips, each with dual amps. The headphone circuit you speak of is in series with the full range speakers and is not a preamp'd signal but rather full power circuits. When you plug in the headphones, it cuts out the speakers.... and feeds the headphones instead.... try it and see. You are correct in saying that the bass amp input signal is tapped to the headphones. IF YOU READ MY POST CAREFULLY, I said that the bass amp gets it's input from the full range amplified signal. You just don't know it because you are interpreting the amps wrong. At this point, let me educate you something..... The amplfied signal is too high to be fed directly to the bass amp. So it is attenuated via R817 and R818. Pins 2 & 5 of the HA1392 are the L/R inputs. Remember what I said? The amplfied signal is attenuated, then reamplifed. Now, at this point, the signal is further attenuated by VR801 and 802. Those are your superwoofer controls behind the grills. Finally, on each leg of the inputs, there is a simple RC circuit (filter). Remember how capacitors work? They pass high frequencies and block low frequencies depending on it's value. Check out the opposite leg of that parallel RC circuit.... IT GOES TO GROUND! So again, like I said, highs are shunted to ground retaining the low frequencies to feed the bass amp. The capacitor and resistor is exactly the components referred to in the block diagram as "LPF". Now in order to have an active filter, you need active components. This would be an opamp or a transistor. NOTICE how there is NO active components in that filter unless you count the main full range amplifier, only the passive resistor and capacitor is what comprises the bass filter. Taking the bass amp input signal from the preamp would've involved additional smaller amps mentioned above, which would've increased cost and complexity. This is why the signal was instead taken from already amplified end of main amp and then attenuated, recycled, filtered and fed to the bass amp. This is again, not a good way of doing it but given that subwoofers generally produce little intelligible audio anyhow, high distortion is not as concerning. A rumble and distorted rumble might not sound that much different. Most GF-777 owners will notice that the center bass amps do sound quite distorted at higher operating levels. Again, taking a distorted signal and amplifying it, multiplies the distortion, especially when the distortion of the bass amp itself is added to the distorted input.

Anyhow, I enjoy a spirited geek conversation as much as anyone, but I've said all I am going to say here and won't waste anymore of my time debunking your theories. If you want to say your boombox sounds great, then that is fine and I have no problem with that, in fact, I'd tend to agree. If you want to say I'm wrong in my interpretation of specifications that is right in front of me, or that I'm reading a circuit wrong, then that's different story. Consider what I said and maybe learn something, or not. Up to you.
 

Cpl-Chronic

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Superduper said:
I did not say nothing is reproduced or usable below 70hz. I did say according to Sharps own specifications, they rate the bass amps starting at 70hz which suggests that it is not nearly optmized for 40hz, which is what YOU said. In fact, I made it clear that it was not a hard cut off, but rather a progressive roll off. If this system was strong at 40hz, Sharp (and any other manufacturer) would certainly advertise it.

As for 90w pmp (which is marketing hype) -- if you want to go with that and not RMS, then go right ahead. Might as well call it 300 watts super-pmp instead.

As for the specifications, I copied those directly from my factory original service manuals (I have 2 copies). I'm not motivated to go through the trouble of posting those here for you. You can believe it or not. There are pdf copies floating around. But it most definitely is 10% THD, a ratings point which virtualy all boomboxes use. You said yourself that you presumed 1% which you said is the standard rate used for amplifiers. Again, don't know where you got that impression from. There is no standardized THD point in which to rate amplifiers. Most home audio amps aren't even rated at anything above .25% or so.

As for the first diagram you showed, it is not a schematic. It is a block diagram which merely shows the intended circuit layout. It offers NO real circuitry. Think of a block diagram as representation of a circuit with blocks connected by lines showing the principle functions of each circuit and it's relationship with each other. They help to better understand how a circuit was designed. They do not generally include any details of the actual circuitry.

As for the second diagram, that is in fact a schematic. Unfortunately, you are reading it completely wrong. First, the preamp circuit isn't even on that diagram, it's on another diagram. What you are seeing is the power amplifier circuit. The HA1392 chips you see are the actual output chips. There are 2 chips, each with dual amps. The headphone circuit you speak of is in series with the full range speakers and is not a preamp'd signal but rather full power circuits. When you plug in the headphones, it cuts out the speakers.... and feeds the headphones instead.... try it and see. You are correct in saying that the bass amp input signal is tapped to the headphones. IF YOU READ MY POST CAREFULLY, I said that the bass amp gets it's input from the full range amplified signal. You just don't know it because you are interpreting the amps wrong. At this point, let me educate you something..... The amplfied signal is too high to be fed directly to the bass amp. So it is attenuated via R817 and R818. Pins 2 & 5 of the HA1392 are the L/R inputs. Remember what I said? The amplfied signal is attenuated, then reamplifed. Now, at this point, the signal is further attenuated by VR801 and 802. Those are your superwoofer controls behind the grills. Finally, on each leg of the inputs, there is a simple RC circuit (filter). Remember how capacitors work? They pass high frequencies and block low frequencies depending on it's value. Check out the opposite leg of that parallel RC circuit.... IT GOES TO GROUND! So again, like I said, highs are shunted to ground retaining the low frequencies to feed the bass amp. The capacitor and resistor is exactly the components referred to in the block diagram as "LPF". Now in order to have an active filter, you need active components. This would be an opamp or a transistor. NOTICE how there is NO active components in that filter unless you count the main full range amplifier, only the passive resistor and capacitor is what comprises the bass filter. Taking the bass amp input signal from the preamp would've involved additional smaller amps mentioned above, which would've increased cost and complexity. This is why the signal was instead taken from already amplified end of main amp and then attenuated, recycled, filtered and fed to the bass amp. This is again, not a good way of doing it but given that subwoofers generally produce little intelligible audio anyhow, high distortion is not as concerning. A rumble and distorted rumble might not sound that much different. Most GF-777 owners will notice that the center bass amps do sound quite distorted at higher operating levels. Again, taking a distorted signal and amplifying it, multiplies the distortion, especially when the distortion of the bass amp itself is added to the distorted input.

Anyhow, I enjoy a spirited geek conversation as much as anyone, but I've said all I am going to say here and won't waste anymore of my time debunking your theories. If you want to say your boombox sounds great, then that is fine and I have no problem with that, in fact, I'd tend to agree. If you want to say I'm wrong in my interpretation of specifications that is right in front of me, or that I'm reading a circuit wrong, then that's different story. Consider what I said and maybe learn something, or not. Up to you.
OK, you made it more clear to me what you are saying....& I agree sort of...90w PMPS is useless & misleading & doesn't shed any light on your explanation, either way. I was trying to point out that so far I can't find any real specs on the web, only 7-8w/ch @ 4-ohms & NO THD numbers at all. I recognize that I am reading the schematic wrong in regards to the headphone jack & secondary feed to the sub-amps. It is amp-out fed, attenutated & definitely less than an optimal design. You're right. I was wrong on that 1 & yes, I apologize. :blush: I am very surprised they did this & a split signal from a pre-amp would make more logical sense. I'm hoping you can understand my general assumptions as being within the realm of reality & you can't deny the signal is sloped before the amps & it's putting out LOTS of bottom end without lots of boost to the signal, even at 20HZ!!! The volume is at 3, the loudness is on & the bass at 3:00 position during the video while the superwoofer controls were flat.
 

Cpl-Chronic

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Thinking more about the 4 amp setup on the GF-777Z & I wonder why they chose such an un-orthodox design? There has to be some reason why the designers chose to piggy-back amps like that for the super-woofer control. Why not tap the pre-amp stage for both AMPS & call it a day? As SuperDuper decried: "it is a poor design fraught with distortion..." WHY OH WHY!!!?? SHARP!!I assumed wrongly that smart engineers work at SHARP but maybe they missed out on making the calcualtors because they weren't 'sharp' enough for that department & ghetto blasters were their plateau in the engineering field. *jk*

I wonder if there's any possibility that they made this kooky circiut to feed the BASS amps so that they can cause a boost in gain over the full range amp chip? That way, when the 'Super-Woofer' controls are flat, the subs gets a 3db boost in signal, or some version of that effect.

:hmmm: ;-)
 

Cpl-Chronic

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Lasonic TRC-920 said:
This Thread is over My Head :dunce:

Nice work....these "Idea's" turning into "Reality" are BEAST'S to achieve, but oh some fun to conceive!
I discovered the GF-777Z was really ahead of its time in '83 & it only lacked modern speakers to awaken it from its 30 year slumber.

Well, what started my wheels turning about the GF is the fact that they really did try to design something different. They used a hybrid horn to boost the tweeters so they could keep pace with the 4 woofer/4 amp design. The horns are actually boosting highs & they have a 4" neck, a wide horizontal dispersal pattern but a very thin vertical coverage. If you stand back about 10 feet from the unit, the horns are loud & clear & carry pretty far back. The 4 woofer/4 amp design is a definite decision to take advantage of the law of driver coupling to boost acoustic output by 3db over traditional 2 woofer boxes & all other factors being equal. The 'Super-Woofer' AMPS have some sort of gain at low frequencies, down to 20Hz. That's no joke...Anyway, 6.5" subs really can't reproduce the low notes below 35Hz anyway but at least I know those notes are there & the amps are handling the load well. IF I can filter everything below the 40Hz mark before it goes to the Line-In on the GF, I think I can crank it with plenty of bass & alot less distortion. We'll have to see what happens once my F-Mod 50Hz High-Pass filters arrive. I 'm gonna order them this week & I'll demo them for anyone interested. :hmmm:

The real problems with the GF-777Z:

1. Puny capacitors on the tweeters pass as a crossover & cause paralell oepration of the woofer & tweeter in high frequencies, causing noise & uneven loads to the outer amps. I use soundstream crossovers that run a 4-ohm wooer & tweeter & have a 3Khz cross-over point & a 12db/oct. rool-off.

2. Puny paper cone woofers with tiny voice-coils, tiny magnets & no headroom for deep bass transients. Use a good Sub-woofer with a low FS or free-air resonance, around 35-40Hz, for the 'Super-Woofer' replacements. The optimal sealed enclosure for these subs should NOT be higher than 0.25 cu. ft. The outer woofers should have a more punchy midrange sound. If possible find a center channel woofer with a stiffer cone, a resonance of 55-65Hz & a usable frequency range up to about 4Khz to blend with the horn tweeters.

3. The case is plastic & needs dampening with Dynamat & acoustic insulation to reduce rattles & resonances that occur. Also, the original vented back design causes an open-baffle effect where the low bass notes cancel themselves out due to the front & back wave of the woofers cancelling each other. To get good low/mid-bass that travels beyond 2 feet away from the blaster, the back has to be sealed.

4. If possible, try to find car tweeters of the cone variety that are more modern than the paper tweeters that are original.

Outdoor sessions in 90+F temps. & a patio setting to prove bass carries well...
90F-Temp-OutSide
Carribean Cajun Island Flavour
 

Reli

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I still think the only reason they used horns was because of space limitations.......I think they decided "This box is already going to be really long and heavy, so we are going to do whatever is necessary to keep the height as low as possible"
 

Cpl-Chronic

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Reli said:
I still think the only reason they used horns was because of space limitations.......I think they decided "This box is already going to be really long and heavy, so we are going to do whatever is necessary to keep the height as low as possible"
Well, that's your opinion & I disagree. Horn loaded drivers are 5 times as efficient & that's why the old Victrola phonograph players used an acoustic horn for amplification without any electricity at all. The same principle applies here too. You need a horn tweeter to keep up with the 4 woofers. From listening to the box outdoors I can honestly say that the horns make a big difference, carry pretty far, sound really clean & the overall sound is balanced & natural, compared to a naked cone tweeter. If you don't believe me, look up horn loudspeakers & the benefits they have over traditional speakers, or don't. I don't really care, either way.
 

tshorba

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The design is simply driven by lack of real estate to place the driver on the front of the box (as other have said), if it was actually "designed" it would have had a matching driver attached, and not the lens plate they used with the cone style driver. The design has a number of flaws including refraction and limited dispersion. I think you need to move on from your "Victrola" example, technology has moved on, the original Victrola's used a horn simply because there was not any dynamic speakers or even amps back then.

Cpl-Chronic said:
The recessed super-woofer design is actually quite useful as it strengthens the cabinet & helps keep it from vibrating. Also, it aligns the drivers & keeps the 4 drivers in perfect phase. You car stereo guys know what I'm talking about.
Your example here is flawed, time aligned speakers have bass at the front, mid stepped back then the tweeter even further back. If the engineers went to the effort to "design" the horn system would they not recognize the time alignment of the driver as well?

No one has knocked the sound of your box, if you are happy that's good. I have tried to give you information on assumptions you have made. I think you need to be less defensive about your project and maybe take advice from others.
I don't think your amps are going to last long, that's my opinion (and others) you are expecting them to preform well above their intended design by driving impedance dips beyond the capabilities. In the end if you don't want to listen that's your choice, I would advise you to a least consider what others are saying.
 

Cpl-Chronic

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tshorba said:
The design is simply driven by lack of real estate to place the driver on the front of the box (as other have said), if it was actually "designed" it would have had a matching driver attached, and not the lens plate they used with the cone style driver. The design has a number of flaws including refraction and limited dispersion. I think you need to move on from your "Victrola" example, technology has moved on, the original Victrola's used a horn simply because there was not any dynamic speakers or even amps back then.

Cpl-Chronic said:
The recessed super-woofer design is actually quite useful as it strengthens the cabinet & helps keep it from vibrating. Also, it aligns the drivers & keeps the 4 drivers in perfect phase. You car stereo guys know what I'm talking about.
Your example here is flawed, time aligned speakers have bass at the front, mid stepped back then the tweeter even further back. If the engineers went to the effort to "design" the horn system would they not recognize the time alignment of the driver as well?

No one has knocked the sound of your box, if you are happy that's good. I have tried to give you information on assumptions you have made. I think you need to be less defensive about your project and maybe take advice from others.

I don't think your amps are going to last long, that's my opinion (and others) you are expecting them to preform well above their intended design by driving impedance dips beyond the capabilities. In the end if you don't want to listen that's your choice, I would advise you to a least consider what others are saying.
Well, how many times can I politely disagree with your 'asessment' of the facts & other opinons to the contrary??
 

tshorba

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You can disagree as much as you want to, it does not make your hypothesis correct. Nobody has disputed that properly designed horns have a high efficiency, you have doggedly defended the flawed design on this sharp.

Maybe answer this, if the Sharp engineers spent the time and R&D on the "horns" why did they skimp on the other drivers? Why did the shroud 3/4 of the tweeter when so much time a effort was put into the horn design? Did Vela and the other brands of "disco lite" models put as much into their design as you credit to the Sharp engineers, after all they use different drivers behind them and as such would require a different horn design. Did the sharp engineers/designers use different horn designs for the different GF series 7X7, 9X9 and 1000 to match the difference in the main drivers.

You don't have to agree with me or anyone else, that's your prerogative. My prerogative is to think that your pride is in the way of you admitting the design flaws and true reason for this type of design after backing yourself into a corner defending it. This was never a discussion on the merits of horns, just the use and design in this particular box.
 

Reli

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Cpl-Chronic said:
Reli said:
I still think the only reason they used horns was because of space limitations.......I think they decided "This box is already going to be really long and heavy, so we are going to do whatever is necessary to keep the height as low as possible"
Well, that's your opinion & I disagree. Horn loaded drivers are 5 times as efficient & that's why the old Victrola phonograph players used an acoustic horn for amplification without any electricity at all. The same principle applies here too. You need a horn tweeter to keep up with the 4 woofers. From listening to the box outdoors I can honestly say that the horns make a big difference, carry pretty far, sound really clean & the overall sound is balanced & natural, compared to a naked cone tweeter. If you don't believe me, look up horn loudspeakers & the benefits they have over traditional speakers, or don't. I don't really care, either way.
I am not questioning whether horns work. I wouldn't have the experience / knowledge to say so for sure. It certainly SEEMS logical.
But just because something works, and uses sound design principles, doesn't prove that Sharp did it for those reasons. We are talking about a company making portable consumer audio, where the primary factors on consumer's minds are:
- price
- looks
- brand image
- bass
 

Superduper

Member (SA)
Virtually all well regarded horn systems use sealed compression drivers. This one just uses standard cone drivers that aren't even properly suited for horn use. In fact, the shrouding is plain stupid and the suggestion that it sounds better or louder just doesn't make sense at all. NOBODY that I recall has ever reviewed a GF-777 and concluded that it had terrific highs. If anything, more that it's lacking highs than anything else. Boxes such as the M70/M90, M9994, Big Ben.... all boxes with excellent highs all have unobstructed cone drivers. Also, there is virtually no chance of the shrouding making any appreciable difference in reducing midtones. That's because these small 2" drivers, unlike large home gear tweeters, do not dip very far down into the midrange anyhow. In fact, the full range outer drivers, without the high pass filters, will emit far more midrange than the tweeters which produces them in such small amounts that they simply can't overpower the full range drivers. Check out all the professional PA and other systems with horns... they ALL use compression drivers. You won't find any with cone tweeters.

This quote from ehow.com says it best:
Drivers
Proper horn speakers need specialized drivers. Using standard speaker drivers with a horn will produce poor sound with restricted frequency response. The drivers needed for a horn speaker should be smaller than the drivers for standard speakers. Popular drivers for horns are made by Fostex and JBL.
It would be great if Sharp actually expended the engineering to design a great top end product. But there is simply nothing exceptional about the GF-777 that puts it on a pedestal compared to other boomboxes and certainly not even close to audiohphile equipment specs. Expending NASA type of engineering to create a product with 10% THD and recycling the 10%thd full range circuit to reamplify and multiply that distortion into the superwoofers.... what? That's the great design that is to be applauded? No, not knocking Sharp. These devices are BOOMBOXES and not high end gear and much of it is simply to create the most impressive biggest baddest looking product available to capture as much market share as possible.

Almost everyone loves the GF-777. But it's simply not a product borne out of tons of research and tweaking. It is what it is, and for what it is, it's great.
All these specs and such that are being tossed around, especially WRONG SPECS, or wrong facts and wrong assumptions is the problem. And I am a stickler for facts which is what I challenged, not the subjective parts since everyone see's things differently. And when you peruse the internet and come back with numbers saying "I found this on the internet so it MUST be true...." All I'm telling you is that when I have the manufacturers specifications right in front of me, I trust that as the authoritative source and not what I found in Stereo80's or what not. But it really sounds like you want to believe what you want to believe.... well, that's fine.
 

Cpl-Chronic

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Again, I respectfully disagree & members who are trying to characterize my disagreement as 'prideful' or 'defensive' are making a personal issue out of a simple debate & I refuse to allow that characterization of myself. I did not do that to you & I do NOT deserve it in return, nor do I accept your judgement in that regard as anything other than YOUR refusal to see another viewpoint.

I still have yet to see ANY audio equipment user manual, including ghettoblasters, rated @ 10% THD, I assumed this forum & other websites were right when quoting wattage & I admitted my mistaken assumption about the pre-amp/amp stage design. As far as horns or design principles gooverning the GF, you have your OPINION & ONLY OPINION, withoutr any fact to back it up. Over & over again, you & others have asserted that OPINION & ONLY OPNION. Where in the manual or schematics does it state 10% THD or that the horns are jsut a marketing gimmick or just for show? It's not there is it? Did anyone take my challenge & listen to the difference between the naked tweeter & then laoded into the horn? I bet not & you won't to prove me wrong or right so this discussion is over, I've made my points. They are valid, based in science & proven horm theory...ALL YOU HAVE IS OPINION.....When challenged I pointed out the block diagram showing the filter before the amp stage. Active? maybe not bit definitely NOT a passive filter in series with the woofer, like more traditional passive cross-overs.


Good night gentlemen & do your research before you accuse me of prideful or defensive remarks when I simply disagree & for good reason....

Buh-BYE!!! :superduper:
 

Cpl-Chronic

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Oh yerah, I must add that I believe my GF will be just fine rockin' out with a sealed back & we'll have to wait to see who's right about that too. Who wants to bet It still works a year from now? 2 years from now?? I played that monster at 7 volume,.all day in 90+F temperatures & absolutely no fade, distortion or clipping form the amps at all. I know what clipping sounds like as a roadie so again, opinons will be proven with time. The question is, are you confident enough to make a bet about that too???

AGAIN, PROVE ME WRONG!!!! :nonono:
 

baddboybill

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My opinion on the horn tweeters on the GF series is for space saving and aesthetics. They look cool. Now this of course is my own opinion!! Here is a pic of my CEC with fake horn tweeters. Yep!!! only there for aesthetics. There is absolutely no tweeter behind them. But they look Kick A$$!!! Many company's add gimmicks to make product look cooler and sell. Again this is my opinion!!

 

Superduper

Member (SA)
Cpl-Chronic said:
.............I still have yet to see ANY audio equipment user manual, including ghettoblasters, rated @ 10% THD............ Where in the manual or schematics does it state 10% THD or that the horns are jsut a marketing gimmick or just for show? It's not there is it? ....................
Oh please, we don't need to prove you wrong. The information is out there if you would just take the time to research it. Asking us to waste our time to educate you when you clearly aren't even open or receptive is BS. As for the longevity of your GF, I hope it lasts forever, but nobody would waste any of their time to bet you or prove you wrong. Believe it or not, up to you. Even if it blew tomorrow, your pride would not allow you to come back and say, it blew. Clipping or not clipping has nothing to do with nor is it necessarily an indicator of imminent amp blow. You could hear clipping at normal listening levels just by cranking up the input source levels too high. There will not necessarily be any advanced warning, it could blow any time. Anyhow, if you would spend more time reading, I already addressed the heat issue and it's effect on your boombox and electrolytic components, and I did not say that potential issues are limited to your amps. These boomboxes lasted 30+ years already. Heat has a cumulative effect. To suggest that if it lasts a week in 90+ temps or months or even a year means the increased heat has no effect is simply wishful thinking and extreme naivety. Of course by your "incontrovertible always right opinion" these bright engineers at Sharp got it right with everything else but wrong by perforating those apparently unecessary vents in the back case.

You want to debate subjectives, then fine. You have a modified kick-buttt project?......... cool. But you want to come here and dispute facts, YOU should do YOUR own research before asking us to prove anything. We don't need to, it's out there. Also, before you start debating circuit design, please learn to read a schematic first so that you will sound more credible when you speak.

Now here is the data you so adamantly want proof of. And before you once again dispute what type of THD is normal for boomboxes, let me just suggest that you DON'T bother. I have tens of thousands of service manuals and don't need to show them all to you as proof. Believe it or not. But for you, I suspect..... not. Anyhow, no matter, I'm outta here.

 

Cpl-Chronic

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Again with the 'pride' comment. I respectfully disagree with most of your assertions & you went out of your way to dispute my theories so I wanted proof since you went out of your way to call me prideful & defensive for disagreeing without any solicitation: So be it. Here's my counter-proof:



Tha above screen is from the GF-777 Oeprating Manual...

So who's right? You HAVE to admit it's pretty confusing & 7w/ch. is probably the right spec. while your spec says the 10% THD is a MAXIMUM limit while the 4w limit is MINIMUM??????, not an operating manual spec, as I said before & I've seen nothing like it in any manual before,,,,I understand your caution when it comes to heat & electrolytic capacitors but, really, the heatsink on these transistors is mammoth & I'm sure the design takes into account that this is a portable, battery operated unit that should handle a hot day at the beach without coming even close to its thermal operating threshold, vented or not. Again,. logic tells me so. In 2 years, we'll see who's right on that too but again, from experience, I know when an amp is fading form heat, I can hear distortion form clipping & so far this unit does not show signs of fatigue due to heat. I will trust that these are robust amps that are designed to be tortured by gear-heads who know nothing about distortion, thermal limits & care only about 'loudness' & how far it can 'crank'. If it blows, I'll be honest & admit defeat like I did when you pointed out my assumption of the pre-amp feeding the 'super-woofer' amp as wrong. It makes no sense unless they are boosting bass output with taht design. I even apologized for being wrong even tho I owe you nothing in that regard. Does that sound like PRIDE to you???? Nope.

So try agian big guy, but you haven't proven anything to me yet, except the cascading amp design of the super-woofer amps & the conflciting specs for the wattages. You may knw you;re right but you can't blame me for not knowing for sure if you're right & needing proof. BTW, what the heck is a MAXIMUM THD spec. anyway? That 1 is the most confusing point of our whole debate. Also, if that's true, then why so much travel at the 20Hz mark if what you say is correct & I'm only getting a small output below 70hz? I'm absolutely posiitive when I say that the specs you quoted are for the output of the amps & speakers together & not a limit of the amplifiers alone. Maybe that was a guess on your part & I proved you wrong there too with my 20Hz test. See, not everything you say is 'true' is really panning out to be a black & white fact, 1 way or another. You're defintiely wrong aobut the horns too & yes, I'm a stickler about mis-infornation too. So, that is why, when you refute someone's knowledge of the facts you better back it up with resources, whether it's a waste of time to you or not.... becasue to me I hate being called 'defensive' or 'prideful' for simply debating the issue & explaining my viewpoint to the contrary. It's insulting & I came here to discuss techincal aspects of boomboxes, not to be insulted by your accusations of a personal nature!! I did NOTmake such comments to you, or anyone else & I do not deserve them in return for my disagreement with your asessment of the facts, even if I am WRONG & won't believe you as you probably think right now, as I do you.....It's called ettiquette. Sorry to be bold but really, leave it at home, I don't need the jabs. You're better than that...

To answer whether the horns are cosmetic or not:

As you can see from the photo below,

the dome of the cone tweeter is visible within the lens of the horn. Therefore the same laws of acoustic amplification applies to this horn as it does to ALL horns & I'm pretty sure they made these hybrid lenses to boost the high frequencies emanationg from the center dome of the cone tweeter. I think they achieved a good result & the horns sound good without alot of distortion. Again, I never said they are as good as true compression horns but for a ghtetto-blaster, they sound clean & sweet without the overpowering upper-mid sound you get from a cone tweeter. Also, the stereo image isn't blurred & the spatial quality of recordings comes through very nicely & they blend right in with the outer woofers too to give a very balanced sound, overall.


So good luck with that 1...:superduper: but again, I respectfully disagree. Is it about my pride? NO. So give it up tough guy 'cause I'm not falling for the bait....

Again, some are very OPINION-ated but really , IT IS ONLY OPINION, NOT ANY HARD FACT TO BACK IT UP!!!
 

Cpl-Chronic

Member (SA)
May 14, 2012
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Windsor, Ontario, CANADA
tshorba said:
You can disagree as much as you want to, it does not make your hypothesis correct. Nobody has disputed that properly designed horns have a high efficiency, you have doggedly defended the flawed design on this sharp.
You're missing my primary point about the horn's lens. The wasted frequencies, used up in refraction, are in fact the general region that is strong in a cone tweeter & drowns out the highs emanating from the dome of the tweeter, anyway. Why not trap only the energy from the dome of the tweeter & boost its acoustic output, using a horn with a decent, if not perfect, dispersal pattern. Frequencies of about 1Khz-2Khz are the most efficient for a cone tweeter & that's why they SUCK!!! I think the GF uses a crude but efffective solution to dampen the mids & even out the overall output of the horn, by only using the FLAT response of the dome region of the tweeter & boosting its output accoustically, using a smaller but somewaht accurate horn aperture. Yes, you get noise from the lens. Yes, it isn't perfect, by any means, but the RESULT really is a much cleaner, more accurate & louder sound than the naked tweeters. So, no I disagree & you simply have to hear this for yourself, I guess to ever settle the debate. Again, I ahve no ego involved & insults liek that jsut cloud the subject instaed of inviting collaboration between opposing views. What SHARP did was make a case that maxximized that shitty paper cone tweeter woofer noise thgt was 'IT' back then & then USED the crappiest speakers ever made to totally sabotage their dominance & give it up to the JVC's & the CONION's. That's the real problem with the GF & maybe 12w/ch woulda, coulda, shoulda, yada-yada....

Otherwise, the case & amp setup is GENIUS, SHEER GENIUS!! 4 woofers coupling within the bass range & bi-amped with a -6db/oct. slope starting, my guess, 80-120Hz. Maybe, sooper can tell me where the filter starts to drop off, instead of guessing but I can't remember the math, anymore & it is definitely a lower roll-off than 500hz as quoted in the manuals. Anyway, a line-level fitler for the dedicated BASS amps is da BOMB for a friggin' D-CELL blaster!!! Made in what year? 1983....Put a couple of treble boosting horns on top & instant PHAT CLUB SOUND!! on a miniature scale & perfect for the average living room, deck, garage or playground. Just add 6.5" cans from 2K12, deaden the cabinet, seal the back & use insulation to break up reflections/rattles. My preference is a blend of SUB & Center channel woofers & a polymer cone tweeter for the horn.

That's all I'm trying to say to you guys & I get all this noise about dust-caps vs domes, 10% THD, ventilation, horns for show & claims of a 70Hz roll-off on the BASS while I can pump 20Hz through my subs all day long & they almost reach their excursion limits!!! I'm saying to you guys, here's a sleeper box, ready for modding, plenty of open space in the bottom 2/3 of the box, & really, all you need are good cans, a good passive 2-way crossover & good tweeters to get really decent sound & it's highly adaptable to ALL forms of msuic with the adjustable woofer controls. I've played everything from country to Groundshaking RASTA dub & it handled it well without hard clipping & filled the room/deck/car with nice beats & clear mids/highs.
 
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