Jump to content



Photo

Conion C100 resto


  • Please log in to reply
155 replies to this topic

#31 caution

caution
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,926 posts
  • LocationHillsboro, Oregon

Posted 24 April 2015 - 06:49 PM

Thanks guys :-P Hardmen, that is interesting about the Korean version, maybe they were too cheap to pay for a bulb?? The Japanese version has no switch, the bulb on all the time when it is plugged into an outlet, if you don't plug it in, it will never light up, because the bulb requires the transformer (AC power). It is the only component in the box that uses AC power. Everything else uses DC.



#32 JustCruisin

JustCruisin
  • Members (SA)
  • 3,098 posts
  • LocationMidwest, USA

Posted 25 April 2015 - 12:30 AM

That tuner dial looks great!!

#33 -GZ-

-GZ-
  • Members (SA)
  • 2,235 posts
  • LocationBoom Central

Posted 25 April 2015 - 01:48 PM

That looks amazing.

#34 im_alan_partridge

im_alan_partridge
  • Members (SA)
  • 2,975 posts
  • LocationLondon, England.

Posted 25 April 2015 - 01:58 PM

You deserve a medal for your massive dedication on this monster.

Well done sir, it looks great so far :thumbsup:



#35 toshik

toshik
  • Members (SA)
  • 479 posts
  • LocationSt. Augustine, FL

Posted 25 April 2015 - 05:31 PM

Are those Nichicon yellow caps better than Panasonics?



#36 Superduper

Superduper
  • Boomus Fidelis
  • 6,852 posts
  • LocationSomewhere over the rainbow, USA

Posted 25 April 2015 - 05:53 PM

pretty sure those are nichicons audio grade series.



#37 stereomad

stereomad
  • Members (SA)
  • 468 posts
  • Locationcrawley

Posted 26 April 2015 - 04:02 AM

Man that's a lot of work...... Hats off to you bro

#38 caution

caution
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,926 posts
  • LocationHillsboro, Oregon

Posted 26 April 2015 - 04:44 PM

Yep Nichicon Gold! If you go back in this thread, one of my posts has all the recap info complete with direct links to DigiKey for each one. I also priced out the Panasonic FC caps, but I didn't bother posting any of that information because you can't get every value you need with those for the recap, and the cost savings was trivial.

 

So I got to looking at the piezo tweeters today and surprise, they're both completely dead. I looked around for others who have swapped them out but nada. I'm open to ideas on a solid replacement. Would I need a crossover? How do I make sure it's not too loud or too soft?



#39 SLO

SLO
  • Members (SA)
  • 2,443 posts
  • LocationInland Empire, Southern California

Posted 27 April 2015 - 12:01 AM

Great work man! Sucks about those tweeters, keep us all posted on finding some replacements  :yes: I gotta tell you, much respect on all the hard work  :thumbsup:



#40 caution

caution
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,926 posts
  • LocationHillsboro, Oregon

Posted 27 April 2015 - 09:02 PM

Man I know! That's okay, it'll be better when I'm done with it :-)

 

It finally got warm enough out today to strip the paint off the grilles, and wow. This stuff I bought stripped it right off. Acetone wouldn't even budge it! You can see where I used a wire brush on what I thought was one of only a couple rust spots. Woops.

 

17108498700_62ef1984b4_o.jpg

17270105866_d621cdb4a5_o.jpg

17108499490_dd0e43e860_o.jpg

17270106366_03420ee2ea_o.jpg



#41 blu_fuz

blu_fuz
  • Moderators
  • 10,503 posts
  • LocationWI

Posted 27 April 2015 - 09:23 PM

Cant wait to see it together.

#42 Cpl-Chronic

Cpl-Chronic
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,978 posts
  • LocationWindsor, Ontario, CANADA

Posted 30 April 2015 - 11:48 AM

Yep Nichicon Gold! If you go back in this thread, one of my posts has all the recap info complete with direct links to DigiKey for each one. I also priced out the Panasonic FC caps, but I didn't bother posting any of that information because you can't get every value you need with those for the recap, and the cost savings was trivial.

 

So I got to looking at the piezo tweeters today and surprise, they're both completely dead. I looked around for others who have swapped them out but nada. I'm open to ideas on a solid replacement. Would I need a crossover? How do I make sure it's not too loud or too soft?

Those are 3-way speakers?  I would try to find a real tweeter with a 6 OHM impedance & cross it over high with a 2.2uF cap, polyester film are really good for audio.  Electrolytics are harsh, brassy....

 

IT will be a bit of 'hit & miss' experimentation with caps to get the right blend between mid & high drivers but the bass & treble will help smooth out the response....

 

Cpl



#43 bklyn sound

bklyn sound
  • Members (SA)
  • 2,317 posts

Posted 30 April 2015 - 01:35 PM

looks amazing what a difference ....great resto work :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:



#44 caution

caution
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,926 posts
  • LocationHillsboro, Oregon

Posted 30 April 2015 - 09:03 PM

Thanks bklyn!

Turns out I wasn't wiring the LEDs optimally, but found a great page for figuring out the best way to connect a single LED or multiple LEDs. Just enter the supply voltage and LED current/voltage ratings and boom, it tells you if putting them in series with one load or in parallel with individual loads is best, AND which resistor values/wattages are necessary.

 

CPL I will try that, thanks. A lot of really high quality 6 ohm tweeters to choose from. Will be interesting to see how it sounds with new highs. The mids use 47uF electrolytics for a crossover.



#45 Cpl-Chronic

Cpl-Chronic
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,978 posts
  • LocationWindsor, Ontario, CANADA

Posted 30 April 2015 - 11:39 PM

CPL I will try that, thanks. A lot of really high quality 6 ohm tweeters to choose from. Will be interesting to see how it sounds with new highs. The mids use 47uF electrolytics for a crossover.

Right, so if the mids are 4 OHMS then the crossover point is around 8500Hz.  So, @ 8500 hz & down the crossover attenuates the mid by 6db for every octave lower in frequency.  4250Hz @ -6db, 2125Hz @ -12db etc.    So ,in theory, you would need a high, high crossover point so that the tweeter is there to only re-create the top octave, 10-20Khz so a crossover using a 2.2uF cap on a 6 OHM tweeter would net a roll-off point of 12000Hz, -6db @ 6000Hz, -12db @ 3000Hz, etc...

 

The reason you want to go high on the roll-off point is so you can allow the treble to pass through while attenuating the mid/high-mid ranges for a 3 way speaker.  The M90 is a legendary 2-way blaster & the tweeters are still crossed at 8KHz even though the tweeters are rated to operate with a 2KHz roll-off point.

 

If you go with a 4 ohm tweeter, you would have to go with a 3.3 uF cap for the same 12K roll-off point... 

 

Don't forget, a Polyester Metal Film cap is best for subtle treble, especially for a tweeter in a 3-way system.  You can order a billion of them from china for pennies...just takes 5 weeks to get here.  The M90 uses poly-film caps & that is the reason it probably has the clearest mid/treble of all of the 80's grails, not to mention their KILLER 6 OHM tweeters that kicked butt like MAD!!

 

Cheers,

Cpl



#46 caution

caution
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,926 posts
  • LocationHillsboro, Oregon

Posted 09 May 2015 - 12:09 AM

Nope the mids in this thing are 8 ohms. They work fine. I need the replacement tweeters to be loud enough, is 6 ohms too much for a 3-way setup? Is that how I balance its loudness or do I even bother? Starting to get analysis paralysis on this one. Look at these chinsy things that were in there!

 

17256899189_601f157650_o.jpg

17417133336_a9e21f9b53_o.jpg

 

I think I will remove the chrome dust caps and apply them to whatever I put in next, if they don't have one already.

 

I soaked the woofer grilles in apple cider vinegar then scrubbed them down with CLR, they are pretty close but still need a good pre-paint sanding.

 

17255810440_7407c527a2_o.jpg

 

I picked up some Duplicolor enamel gloss black tonight with some 600 grit sandpaper as advised. The original coat had a nice rounded smooth look, so it may take a couple coats to get that. I think. Do I even bother with primer??

 

I had my first foray into plastic surgery tonight, and I'm thoroughly impressed. I wasn't even sure I got enough in there, but it's only been three hours and it feels tough as nails. Will do the other two tomorrow.

 

17257152309_4feb77eef4_o.jpg

 

I finally sorted out the dial light circuit, I actually calculated the correct resistor value/wattage, I just needed to reconnect them to be in parallel. What a huge difference that made. It was doing something screwy to the whole system in that when I turned it off, it would fade out in two stages, like it was bleeding out the caps or something. Now it turns off instantly Even with a 12-watt load I made of the same resistance, it was still getting too hot. All because the LEDS were in parallel and not in series. Ganging the voltage drops enabled the resistor to operate at a lower voltage I think, and made all the difference. It's now brighter than it was before, and only gets slightly warm with a 1-watt load, although it could be half that and still be fine. Here are a couple before and after the correction.

 

17443234531_32cecd7488_o.jpg

 

16821441054_f7d66d8802_o.jpg

17257733729_46dbf7e6f5_o.jpg

 

On top of that, I applied some aluminum tape to the opposite end to get it to fill in with light better. Really makes a difference.

 



#47 stragulus

stragulus
  • Members (SA)
  • 154 posts
  • LocationNew York

Posted 09 May 2015 - 04:24 PM

I really dig your in-depth updates and modifications. I am very curious to see if you can get some decent highs out of this beast. My beat up Helix really lacks in the highs, though I haven't yet bothered to recap anything yet. But I kind of suspect that it was lacking in highs the second it left the factory.

 

Do you think there are gains in the bass department as well? While the box gets loud, at low volume the bass is not as good as I feel it could be. Maybe that's an artifact of the one-piece boombox designs? There are 3-pieces that really sound much better, for example the sharp WF-939's. 



#48 Cpl-Chronic

Cpl-Chronic
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,978 posts
  • LocationWindsor, Ontario, CANADA

Posted 10 May 2015 - 11:28 PM

Wel

I really dig your in-depth updates and modifications. I am very curious to see if you can get some decent highs out of this beast. My beat up Helix really lacks in the highs, though I haven't yet bothered to recap anything yet. But I kind of suspect that it was lacking in highs the second it left the factory.

Do you think there are gains in the bass department as well? While the box gets loud, at low volume the bass is not as good as I feel it could be. Maybe that's an artifact of the one-piece boombox designs? There are 3-pieces that really sound much better, for example the sharp WF-939's.

I'm kind of a speaker guy so I can answer that question. It's mainly the speakers. The tweeters are paper cones pasted to piezo tweeters so that would be less efficient than the piezos by themselves & without the weight & damping factor of the cone...

put some good 4 ohm cone tweeters in there instead & the difference will be like the darkest night vs the sunniest day. cross them high @ 12Khz to roll off the mids completely & only pass the high treble frequencies flat.. Some smaller SANYO, PANASONIC or SONY tweeters would work well here from another blaster or you could go new with a recessed wave-guide to boost output by about 3db...

Tympany makes a good tweeter that is cheap & exactly the same as the old VIFA dome tweeters for about 15-20 bucks each plus shipping....
 

 

Also, I have a pair of C-100 woofers & they are great but the are NOT bass cannons in any way.  They are good at upper mid-bass @ hi volumes but lack a bit of punch in the 50Hz range...

 

If you have weak caps in the power block or AMP block, that just makes it worse...

 

Cpl



#49 caution

caution
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,926 posts
  • LocationHillsboro, Oregon

Posted 12 May 2015 - 01:56 AM

Thanks strag, yeah it may take a couple goes at tweeters but I have no doubt it will sound fine when I'm done. As for the woofers, I really doubt there is any more punch from new caps, I would imagine it would help with other issues related to signal degradation. Easy bass improvement is the mp3 player EQ on your smartphone, or in my case I like to use an mp3 cassette with a bass boost.

So after a couple more days of soaking and new fluid, I think half the chrome is gone and I see copper plating over the nickel. The coil was totally eaten away on one of them and had to trim it back a bit, but it still works. I had to remove the heat stakes holding the battery panel on, but I will use some plastic solvent to reattach it. A major source of creaking was this panel sliding against the chassing when it flexed from being carried, so I'll shave that one end down a bit.

I got down'n'dirty and finished all of the plastic damage, it sort of dripped too much on my first post, but after I got a feel for how little you really need, and I mean LITTLE, it is just amazing. You can see from the pics how it gets into the crack , melts each side, and oozed together. seamless! I love it!

I found five tabs inside the chassis when i opened it, so I got all those back on. The nice thing about the posts and tabs is that just about every time the crack interface was irregular enough to hold the piece into place without any assistance, which to me seemed ideal since I was so afraid of having it start moving out of place once the solvent hit. It took a very steady, double-handed-pinstriping technique to get the tiny bead of solvent right where you need it, but not so close you nudge the part. In one case I slightly nudged it after a tiny bit got on there, but two seconds later the interface was just soft enough that I could just push it back for a few moments and let it set enough to stay put. Awesome.

Three cracks on the tray are now all healed, one crack did a 180 as it went, so you had to push up from the other side to expose the other half. I wasn't sure the solvent would reach the entire length if I dabbed it from the far end, so I quickly laid down a bead along the crack, and wiped it up right away, but in that moment, it didn't waste any time getting to work on the surface. Now that they're repaired I'll sand and polish it and try to minimize them. The top side doesn't look any different. I was thinking I might design a custom liner for the tray to hide the cracks and give it a little bit extra style.

I've also been trying to figure out what to do about the chrome on the tweeter grilles since it's not really mirrorlike, as it should be. It never really was since it was just painted on, so all of my ideas for using Alclad or that Kosutte Gin San chrome powder you rub in seemed messy and temporary. So, I measured the strips and they are 90 mils. I went and found some chrome pinstriping that was 3/32" (93 mils) so I am going to try what mmcodomino did and overhaul them manually. I think it done right it could work fine, sort of like the vertical strips on the M90.

I went spring hunting at the gizmo store and ended up finding a drawer full of some that slip right onto the door posts like a glove, so I opened up the ends and will see how they work once I get the whole unit back together. I might try to bridge them with a third piece and some silver solder.

I also found some 1/16" rubber foam with adhesive backing that was large enough to cut out feet for the bottom. One side was okay but the other side was gone. It drops right in perfectly if you cut it out at 1.58" by 0.4". I used some tar remover to get the old gunk out of there, but I forgot what happens if you are applying it to an unpainted surface, it starts to melt the plastic. You can see the original gray color under there, which I will be exposing soon with my retrobrite process. I was going to do it over the weekend but my source of UV light disappeared, but about a week it seems!

17362032419_c4f58db98a_o.jpg

16925822784_e52df43425_o.jpg

17362049869_5d0bd2afaa_o.jpg
17546080102_40ac381ebb_o.jpg
17360770360_b0c7fae5d2_o.jpg16928048093_e1e9c29640_o.jpg
17521998986_7fa4f8e980_o.jpg
17547058592_51c90127c6_o.jpg


17548212911_742ce46846_o.jpg
17360549788_d0152d34fe_o.jpg
17548331091_85f19030a1_o.jpg
17546061322_e021bfec7a_o.jpg
17546082412_6c5fb22b3e_o.jpg
17548232691_cd89cafa0c_o.jpg
17360728120_18a630c9b7_o.jpg
17362013659_39c4351a94_o.jpg
16925806134_baf36b7b71_o.jpg


16925817164_e83765f3aa_o.jpg
16925818384_2820f01635_o.jpg



#50 Cpl-Chronic

Cpl-Chronic
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,978 posts
  • LocationWindsor, Ontario, CANADA

Posted 12 May 2015 - 11:05 PM

Holy Moly!!  You are systematically eliminating the issues like an archeologist...

 

Amazing work!

 

Cpl



#51 caution

caution
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,926 posts
  • LocationHillsboro, Oregon

Posted 16 May 2015 - 05:41 PM

With any luck I'll have it done this summer, closing in on the difficult ones (for me)

 

Started to polish the VUs and dial. A couple of nicks in the dial will need some 2000 grit (hopefully not more than that. I tested some on the side last night but need to do a little more on similar acrylic to make absolutely sure it will be okay to use. Novus deep scratch isn't getting it out. I may have to leave it, it's very minor.

 

17723241156_36c119f482_o.jpg

17561893298_2685d10231_o.jpg

17749680515_d54e551f03_o.jpg

 

 

Also got replacement antennas, they're extremely close, same length collapsed, but the tip is longer so you have to pull it the tiniest amount to clear it. You can see in the pics from the scuffs on the original one I had how close it is to the new tip. All segments are about 8 mils thinner, enough not to have a snug fit at the first anchor and just feels a bit flimsier, but works!

 

17561796598_be40467b7f_o.jpg

17749935141_30749d2ed4_o.jpg

 

17563317499_e793b396a2_o.jpg

17563314519_ff362d2470_o.jpg

17723161756_3db0d25334_b.jpg



#52 blu_fuz

blu_fuz
  • Moderators
  • 10,503 posts
  • LocationWI

Posted 16 May 2015 - 09:19 PM

Big tip! Is it cold in here?!?!?


Polishing the plexi will just take time if you really want it any better.


Looking good buddy.

#53 caution

caution
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,926 posts
  • LocationHillsboro, Oregon

Posted 16 May 2015 - 11:33 PM

bit-nipply_dvd.original.jpg



#54 BoomboxLover48

BoomboxLover48
  • Boomus Fidelis
  • 5,245 posts
  • LocationChicago, IL

Posted 18 May 2015 - 07:12 AM

Amazing job! wow! :hooray:  :hooray:



#55 SLO

SLO
  • Members (SA)
  • 2,443 posts
  • LocationInland Empire, Southern California

Posted 19 May 2015 - 01:15 AM

Amazing job! wow! :hooray:  :hooray:

 

 

Agreed!  :popcorn:



#56 caution

caution
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,926 posts
  • LocationHillsboro, Oregon

Posted 21 May 2015 - 11:12 PM

put some good 4 ohm cone tweeters in there instead & the difference will be like the darkest night vs the sunniest day. cross them high @ 12Khz to roll

 

I swear you mentioned using a 6Ω tweeter with a 2.2μF poly. I got these coming in the mail, they had a decent rating and will fit inside the original tweeter case, so I can use that to mount it. Not sure where I'd get a waveguide but I don't really think I need one.

 

Gave the front and back a bath, polished the LED meter chrome, and tried to run a retr0brite session but the sun went away, so I turned my attention to the tape door. Amazingly the plastic part is in fantastic condition, no scratches, even the sticker is perfect. But the trim, man, it's all dented and scratched and bent up. It looks like someone tried to open the deck door by pulling on it, so the sides are all bent up. It's held on by glue that I believe is the same as that around the dial window, it was originally very tacky but has dried to a crystalline solid. I can't find anything to lift it.

 

I fashioned a little trough out of foil and set the door in it, pouring 99% IPA in so it just covered the trim 100%. Went to work and came home with most of it evaporated but it had softened the glue just enough that I could feel it start to separate, but still too much force without bending it. So, I decided to try and distribute the force by holding it down with a piece of Gorilla tape and anchoring the whole thing to the edge of the table, then pushing down on the opposite end of the door, that was able to put enough force on it to slowly separate. I still managed to bend it a tiny bit but it's no worse than what's already there. Lots of little taps and should get that thing looking better than it was. Not sure what I can do about the surface, pretty sure the lettering will take a hike if I sand it.

 

17768325708_259b31c0a2_o.jpg

17333601884_f9de59eb1e_o.jpg

17956852991_3eb0107b14_o.jpg17956850981_ab362f7b2f_o.jpg

17768324288_1a2b428ea6_o.jpg

17768323808_29b7d74e79_o.jpg



#57 blu_fuz

blu_fuz
  • Moderators
  • 10,503 posts
  • LocationWI

Posted 22 May 2015 - 07:59 AM

Yeah if you sand it the decal will be gone. I hate that the aluminum trims scale like that. My M71 has it all over the gold aluminum trims.



#58 caution

caution
  • Members (SA)
  • 1,926 posts
  • LocationHillsboro, Oregon

Posted 30 May 2015 - 09:15 PM

Finally! Sun!

 

17666086674_296f9d6b0f_o.jpg

 

18100889428_c0af9fcb35_o.jpg

18290101681_bee1bf7414_o.jpg

 

After a couple of hours the sun had moved enough that I had to prop it up on a chair to stay in full exposure, and as you can see, it was basically done.

 

17666082324_d0ffdde6ab_o.jpg

 

The next pic shows how there was still some yellowing around the name plate, so I left it another hour or so.

 

18100958340_d62d1ce3ec_o.jpg

 

18100883598_47c340e6aa_o.jpg

 

You can see here that I exposed quite a few imperfections in the plastic, but it sort of comes with retrobriting. I'm fine with them over the yellowing!

 

18100882208_68c2ff8fd7_o.jpg

17666167844_a2a36b5366_o.jpg

 

If you look at the very beginning of the thread, the second pic shows the battery cover on, and you'd think it hadn't been infused with a flame retardant. It either just had less or the previous owner bought a replacement from another unit. Or it's just really dirty, I haven't cleaned it yet  :-/

 

18288692835_9dccf9ae3c_o.jpg



#59 BoomboxLover48

BoomboxLover48
  • Boomus Fidelis
  • 5,245 posts
  • LocationChicago, IL

Posted 30 May 2015 - 09:42 PM

Awesome!!!!! :jawdrop:  :jawdrop:  :jawdrop:  :jawdrop:  :jawdrop:



#60 blu_fuz

blu_fuz
  • Moderators
  • 10,503 posts
  • LocationWI

Posted 30 May 2015 - 09:45 PM

Way better than yellowed!