It's time to be serious: talking about Newton massacre

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ea1987

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Jan 19, 2011
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I'm looking at what had happened in your country and everytime I hear about massacres made by young, mad people who have a lot of guns and other weapons with them, I remain speechless. Maybe media are magnifying what happened, but the last news here in Italy was that weapons lobby stated that this massacre could have been avoided if Teachers had had guns. I mean...this is completely meaningless!!I know that in USA there is a kind of "gun culture" but this is crazy guys!really crazy..You should, as you say, be one of the most developed country in the world (talking about freedom, culture..) and this is not what should happen in a country who has this important identity!
I'm very interested in knowing your opinions, mainly by usa members!
Thank you guys!
Andrea
 

JVC Floyd

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May 6, 2009
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in my opinion all this could have been avoided by simply securing the weapons in a way in which only the legal owner had access to them .
1. trigger locks
2.breech locks
3.gun safes
4.thick heavy chains ran trough the trigger guards with tamper proof locks.

another way to curb the violence is to remove gun play from

movies
tv
video games.

go to any dave and busters and count the games based on violence .
count how many crime dramas are on tv every day.
everybody wants gun control but nobody seems to have people control.
when you have women in tv shows and movies shooting it out with guns what kind of message does that send to kids ? anybody remember tomb raider or kill bill or the 100 other movies with women acting no better than some of the ****ed up men you see doing the same thing.

we are not a gun culture but a violence culture , this country was formed by armed revolt and without that we would still be a brittish colony.

I think the moral fiber has vanished in favor of superficial pursuits and fake dignity.

killers who did not use guns in the commission of mass murders,
john wayne gacy
jeffery dahmer
the hillside strangler
jack the ripper
and i'm pretty sure somewhere along the line these people were kids and went to school and parents said they were great kids at some point in time.

i wonder how other things stack up to guns in the killing department.
abortion
drug addiction
drunk driving
prescription drugs
child neglect
child abuse
medical malpractice
hunger
how many people die from these things every day?

how about
lack of health insurance
lack of money
lack of love
lack of friends who truly care.

I mean we could ban guns and only allow the government and police to own them just like hitler did so at anytime they can shoot us dead or round us up and call us political aggitator's or the big one INSURGENTS :lol: talk about a one sided advantage leading to a totally corrupt system where you get you ass handed to you and you are expected to like it.

i think all in all the usa is the worlds biggest killer of kids by reason of armed invasion, dropping bombs on people and sending drones to kill by remote control.starving out the countries we choose to go to war with without true facts, in a ****ed up world where a great many people suck let's blame it on high capacity magazines and m-16's instead of blaming the people of the world without morals .

no prayer in schools but plenty of i phones to go around.

i'm not saying these thing apply to everyone but they do apply .

this is only my ****ed up opinion that don't mean i'm right by any means.
 

Superduper

Member (SA)
Be advised that gun control is a very polarizing subject. And as you say, the data shows that it's actually true, that in most places in USA where gun laws are less regulated and ownership more prevalent, violent gun crime is lower than in places where guns are mostly banned, the argument being that knowing others are armed is a huge deterrent. But my personal feeling is that eveyrtime gun control laws step up a notch, it is the law abiding citizens that end up being the ones disarmed. Criminals do not care about laws so the net result is that YES there will be less guns overall but the ratio will be more illegal guns vs legal guns. These types of crimes are almost always perpetrated by someone that simply is not normal. It is not easy, almost impossible for a person with a normal functioning brain to make the leap and kill another person, much less commit suicide afterwards. Human nature's self preservation instinct is so great that it's a very high hurdle. So let's say this guy was totally insane (anyone that shoots his mother in the face, kills 20 elementary school kids, then himself MUST be insane). If guns are banned, what's to stop him then from committing heinous acts with knives, or axes, or machetes or cars (yes, people have used cars and drove them into crowds), and bombs, or Molotov cocktails after chaining up the doors.... there simply is so many ways to commit mass murder that the mere thought that simply banning guns would solve all of societies problems, make people less insane and result in a world free of heinous acts is naive. We are a country with a population of over 200,000,000 people. There will always be someone crazy enough to do things that the normal person can't comprehend possible. Anyhow, like I said, very polarizing subject and this is just my opinion. If responsible gun ownership ratio is comparatively high, then it's far less likely that a "mass" murder will take place as there will almost surely be someone else (in a crowd) who is armed and able to defend against such acts. It won't prevent the crime entirely, but certainly, the ability to have free reign to run about and pop people at will be greatly diminished.
 

docs

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Jun 26, 2010
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Very subjective topic, being from the UK I best not say anything in case I get mobbed by our armed police and government officials ;-)
Needless to say I'm not that surprised by the tragedy.
 

jimmyjimmy19702010

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May 5, 2012
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Quote: "The nation averages 87 gun deaths each day as a function of gun violence, with an average of 183 injured, according to the University of Chicago Crime Lab and the Centers for Disease Control. The crime lab’s research estimates the annual cost of gun violence to society at $100 billion."

That's 31,755 americans shot dead & 66,795 injured on average every year! :-O

I had no idea the situation was that bad. :sad:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ising.html
 

stormsven

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Im not American , but lately was watching a show "Preppers" from the States on National Geographic channel and im shocked - one dude got 75 rifles for "surviving" purposes. Some families are teaching 6-7 years old kids "shoot to kill" for "survival" purposes..... All have more than 10 firearms at home. A family was teaching 5 years old girl on code words SHF ( **** hits the fan) and she must be prepping for military action... One bloke was teaching "professionally" his small boys to shoot and he shot his own finger in front of them..... What if all those kids decide that they need to "survive" in normal situation , because all we know - some times the life is on the edge for all of us or at least we think so. Are all those kids start shooting like were told to do...
So if this is reality ...... :nonono:
 

blu_fuz

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Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


You can regulate any kind of gun law and the bad guys will always find a gun if they want one.


The schools (even elementary level) could have a security guard and metal detectors, or have principals with some kind of police training and a weapon. :thumbsup:


I don't agree to fight fire with fire. More guns does not solve the issue for me so that the bad guys think about what they do knowing they might be shot at themself.


With such a big hunting culture here, the gun laws will NEVER be to get rid of them all and I don't think that would be a good idea either.
 

k2j

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Mar 28, 2011
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ea1987 said:
weapons lobby stated that this massacre could have been avoided if Teachers had had guns.
IMO totally untrue. You don't think anyone at the Clackamas town center was packing last week when that yahoo came shooting his Assult rifle? This is the wild west and TONS of gun packers. NO one shot back. Its hard for me to chime in on this as I do own guns...so I'm a bit hypocritical, but that argument is flawed. People talk about carrying to fire back, but it doesn't happen when the SH*T goes down.
 

Lasonic TRC-920

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Feb 16, 2010
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IMHO....I think it's a little late...guns are here....and they are still being manufactured and pumped into our society at a massive rate. Now we are at the "Chicken Before The Egg" quandary and that's why we can't seem to solve this. Take the gun's from the sane people and the criminals and the insane will murder us all. And if you look at Syria, take the guns away from us all and the government will murder us all.

When I first heard about this and I first saw the weapons used and then found out they were his mothers I thought, why would a woman own an assault rifle?

This morning I saw an interview of her neighbor who said the mother got into guns and bought those in the last few years BECAUSE....

"She was preparing for the end, the end of society".

So where do I point the finger....I point the finger at our world leaders and the media. Our world leaders and the greed of the modern corporation have sent our world in to utter turmoil and people are scared and are/have been losing everything they have worked for. Mix that with a toxic media that is making money off of this "Doomsday", "2012" "End of the world" Bull Shiat and you have desperate people. You mix this with murderous movies, TV shows, video games and music, and like it or not, all this together could create a mysterious pattern in the mind that is as vast and deep as the universe that we can't yet understand or control.

Sadly, this kid who killed all these people has a mental condition known as Asberger syndrome. But as previously mentioned, if these guns were safely locked up, none of this would have happened...and if you back it up even further, if we lived in a country that wasn't run by corporations buying our politicians and the people felt they had security and a future, that mother would have never bought the AR-15 assault rifle in the first place!

BTW, it's not just the USA, today, the news....10 school girls killed in Afghanistan when a landmine exploded? Mankind has mad a mess out of his home :sad:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/world/asia/afghanistan-girls-landmine/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
 

Fatdog

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When it comes to firearms, I have more than one but fewer than one hundred. I have never killed anybody, nor have I ever awakened and thought, "Hey, I'm gonna go terminate as many lives as I can and then end my own life." I possess a very valuable commodity these days; I have common sense and a sane mind - although Mrs. Fatdog would question both of those at times. :-D
 

blu_fuz

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Lasonic TRC-920 said:
When I first heard about this and I first saw the weapons used and then found out they were his mothers I thought, why would a woman own an assault rifle?

This morning I saw an interview of her neighbor who said the mother got into guns and bought those in the last few years BECAUSE....

"She was preparing for the end, the end of society".

But as previously mentioned, if these guns were safely locked up, none of this would have happened...

^ this, this, this, this, THIS!!!!!

No one needs a multi round weapon that shoots that fast. Should have been locked up in a steel safe, with a trigger lock, and the ammo locked up in it's own safe. This is a fault of the mother and child, and the regulations involved for owning a weapon like this. Sounds like mom was looney too :-/
 

Lasonic TRC-920

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Fatdog said:
I have never killed anybody, nor have I ever awakened and thought, "Hey, I'm gonna go terminate as many lives as I can and then end my own life." I possess a very valuable commodity these days; I have common sense and a sane mind
I think in the end, this is what we have to remember. No one ever wants to see these things happen. But like Norm said, no guns, they'll use something else. People were killing people before guns....crazy is crazy.

BUT guns still need to be stored correctly!
 

Reli

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Dec 24, 2010
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blu_fuz said:
No one needs a multi round weapon that shoots that fast.
What specific model of gun was used?

I highly doubt it was full-auto, so it must have been semi-auto, just like 70-80% of all guns in the world these days. No big deal IMO.

If it was an AR-15, so what, those are so damn common......Many hunters are using them nowdays, believe it or not.

I think society just looks at it and goes "OMG IT LOOKS LIKE AN M16 SO IT MUST BE A MACHINE GUN"........uh, no.
 

Superduper

Member (SA)
They were not assault weapons, Reli, just semi-autos.

AS for gun trigger locks... now that is regulation that I can live with. It is the outright bans that disturb me.

AS for making this a worldwide discussion.... with all due respect, each country is sovereign and each country has it's own culture that does not apply, nor would someone in another part of the world understand.

It's all so typical... laws make it illegal to murder someone. Yet whenever that happens and a gun was used in the commission of a crime, it's always blame the gun and not the shooter. Do we ban fertilizer when courthouses disappear into a crater or do we ban airplanes when they are used like missles all over the east coast? Of course not.

Tony, don't believe those shows. It's not nearly indicative of what you see here. Like I said, we are a population of 200+ million. There will always be a small microscopic fraction of people that behave in unacceptable manners. Shows relies on sensationalism in order to sell or entice people to watch. Nobody wants to watch a boring show about what is "normal." They always show only the most extreme behaviour because that is what gets people's attention. I have never heard of what you speak of. But even if true, it probably represents .00000001% of what happens here. So rest assured, you can visit our country and unlike in some parts of the world. chances are decent that you not be murdered or kidnapped for ransom and make it home safely after your visit.

Speaking of..... I agree with Floyd and others who mentioned the Media. I completely cast blame on Hollywood and entertainment industry who in my mind, has played the biggest role in shaping America in the past 30 years than almost any other factor. By sensationalizing and broadcasting all sorts of extreme behaviour over and over again, they have portrayed such behaviour as mainstream and normal. Children see these over and over again and suddenly, it becomes the new normal. All the shows I used to watch as children about family, etc, have all disappeared. Nowadays, every show is about sex, violence, backstabbing, etc. Hardly any show ever promotes the family, honor, respect, faith, etc anymore. Think about it.... even seemingly innocuous shows like gossip girl or survivor teaches kids that it's perfectly normal to backstab, extort, manipulate, and screw others for personal pleasure or gain. Kids see people (celebrities they respect and worship) exhibit this behaviour over and over again, and it becomes normal, ergo perfectly OK to mimic.
 

JVC Floyd

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in my opinion nothing will improve until the glorification of gun violence in tv , movies and video games is banned period.
but the bottom line is the world is ****ed up and people really need something to live for ,and our schools suck because it's a fashion contest more than a place of learning and bullies are responsible in part because they treat people like **** and laugh about it .

i know parents who don't allow the kids to own a tv or phone and i admire that because our kids are being raised by computers, tv's and i phones and it sets a bad example to let kids do as they please because some parents are so gutless they won't say no to them for anything, and the kids feel they have to have these thing to not be picked on or just excluded from social life.
you cannot improve things until you improve people .

the parents are the ones in control but they do not use that control wisely or use it at all because society wants us to pamper kids and let them know they can do as the please because by law their hands are tied.


look at the media every second is filled with bad news and violence and broadcast non stop and what you end up with are copy cat killers who want to be on the news . that's why there is a rash of such thing happening because you can't fill somebody's head with idea's like that and expect peace and quite to rein .

if these thing were not in the news 24/7 then people would realize they might not get the coverage they wanted when they flip out. but no they constantly update the bad news so that the ****ing maniacs feel like they have a shot a glory or immortality in the news.

as you know fanning the flames just makes a fire burn better and i blame the media in part for not shutting the **** up for 5 minutes and letting the past go so that maybe we can start to heal if that's possible. i'm not saying lets forget about it but damn why rehash the same old **** every damned minute , i think the constant reminders hurt the parents more than it help them.

and those fake ****ing crocodile tears we see in the news from you know who , i call that a photo op :-P first time i seen anybody cry dry tears from a place no tears form in the upper corners of your eyes .
 
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

wtf?

Well isn't that the most simplistic crap you ever heard in your life?

Ever killed someone? Well I have, more than one, from a hill some distance away with a modern semi-automatic weapon in a middle eastern country the USA now regards as an enemy. (btw they aren't guns they are weapons).

It's incredibly easy to shoot and kill with a modern assault rifle, too easy, dozens of unarmed people can be killed in a few minutes, it's impossible to do the same with a knife, it's impossible to do the same with a handgun, it's even impossible to do the same with most shotguns.

Nobody is suggesting wholesale disarming of the US populace, that's impossible to do and not even necessary, just remove the long semi-autos, and like Chris says, trigger locks, gun safes, separate ammo safes. Also banning the private sale of weapons would go a long way to stopping crazy people getting hold of weapons.

But then only criminals will have weapons you say? Well I say it would make criminals a whole lot easier to identify and catch.



 
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