2 ohm BOSE car woofers - HMMM Would they be too much load?

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Cpl-Chronic

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Heyya all, :hmmm:

pondering an upgrade again to the GF. I was thinking of using some JBL's I mentioned in another thread but it turns out they will need lots of modding to fit & I still don't know the important particulars to know if they would work well or not. I also found some BOSE 2-ohm car drivers that might squeeze some watts out of the AMPS but I'm not sure if they would be 2-ohm stable on the GF 777Z. & if they are efficient enough to have any real world gains in volume or BASS.

Any thoughts would be welcome. :thumbsup:
 

Cpl-Chronic

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monchito said:
you could burn it up and send the 777 to me :w00t: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well, the spec sheet for the HA1392 IC's says the IC's have thermal protection built in & the power output graph goes down to 2 ohms @ 15v if I remember correctly. Here's a link to the PDF:

http://www.ddrservice.net/download/Inte ... 2.pdf.html

Some graphs go as high as 18v & the wattage goes up to about 10w @ 10% THD if I'm reading the graphs right. That's @ 4 ohms. Also, if you measure the voltage supplied by the AC transformer of my GF-777Z, you get 18v DC. So, when the unit is plugged in, you get almost 10w per channel @ 10% THD & 4-ohms.
 

Cpl-Chronic

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Well, I talked ot my vintage gear guru who runs a vintage audio store, literally 2 blocks away from my house. I know, I'm so lucky to have that luxury. He's a great guy & always happy to help out. Anyway, he steered me away from the idea, telling me the IC would burn out & probably kill other parts of the amp board too. He said that 3 ohms really is the safe limit on those amp chips & they are hard to find.

Pretty much the same as others here have said so yeah, I'm ditching the idea & on the lookout for 2.8-3.2 ohm JBL's or other decent candidates that fit. I'm also willing to trade my ultra rare SHARP 30w 8 ohm flat-woofers for a decent set of woofers that are close to what I'm looking for.
:-D
 

Fatdog

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Smart move. :yes: Man, some JBL woofers in a 777? :w00t: I bet that would kick ass.
 

Cpl-Chronic

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Fatdog said:
Smart move. :yes: Man, some JBL woofers in a 777? :w00t: I bet that would kick ass.
Well, I thought some more about the BOSE woofers & they look so nice sitting in the Super-Woofer slots so I decided to look into the details some more. Here's a pic showing the new woofers, installed.



I went back to the spec PDF & the power graph does go down to 2 ohms implying a stable operation under those conditions. The heatsinks in the GF are massive & I remember playing the box with 4 ohm cans & the sinks were cool to the touch. Also, measuring the BOSE woofer's DC resistance, I get 2.1 Ohms which should average out to a 2.4+ ohm nominal impedance, under typical conditions. Being a BOSE driver, it is most likely a well behaved design that shouldn't dip too low in impedance for the IC to fry. Also, the spec mentions thermal trip if it gets too hot.

All of these thoghts, put together, encourages me to believe this monster is alot more rugged & forgiving of low impedance woofers than most woudl think. I'll try it out & risk my GF for the sake of pushing the boundaries & seeing what this tank is capable of. Wish me luck! :blush: :breakdance:

I think it'll work out ok & sound really solid too. Time will only tell. I think a solid 2 weeks of listening sessions should put the matter to rest, once & for all. The woofers were out of a Cadillac BOSE sound system & were not too expensive. I hope it works out good. *fingers crossed*.
 

Cpl-Chronic

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New speakers in action No joke, leave your volume low at first so your speakers don't get damaged:

WARNING!!! HEAVY BASS TRACKS!!! TURN DOWN YOUR SPEAKERS BEFORE PLAYING!!!

This is a recording of the new BOSE woofers as SuperWoofers. The sound is from the boombox & recorded using my crappy, mono, 10MP kodak in video mode. If my crappy camera can pick up this much bass & volume, imagine how it sounds in person. :breakdance: :breakdance: :breakdance: :thumbsup:

Now, we'll just have to wait and see if the chips can handle the lower impedance of the BOSE woofers. *fingers crossed*
 

goodman

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You do not stop doing experiments... :-)
I think that now, the bass is quite strong and expressive... :breakdance:
 

Cpl-Chronic

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Well, it's been eight days since my last post & still the 2 OHM woofers have been pounding out the 808's, Nelly, movies, rock, Reggae, including heavy DUB & the GF Triple7 is still rockin' out with it's C*** OUT!! :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

If you take a look at the sinks in this tank, & pictured below:


you get the idea that heat really isn't a problem for this design unless you are in direct sunlight & 110 degree temps outside. Even so the spec sheet, as you can see from the snapshot below specs down to 2 ohms in the graph:



Also, the spec. mentions thermal protection so I wanted to see if I could push the known barrier & dip down below 3 ohms. I've seen 3.2 ohm speakers but no-one that I know of has used 2 ohm speakers & the GF is perfect for that attempt.

I'll get a couple of videos together & start a thread about exploring 2 ohm stable 777 MODS. :yes: :yes: :yes:
 

tshorba

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The heat sinks are woefully inefficient, if you want to continue with your mods I would consider replacing them with a finned design to increase the thermal dissipation.

On the Nominal Impedance of the drivers, you have to consider as frequency drops the impedance will also drop.
 

Cpl-Chronic

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tshorba said:
The heat sinks are woefully inefficient, if you want to continue with your mods I would consider replacing them with a finned design to increase the thermal dissipation.

On the Nominal Impedance of the drivers, you have to consider as frequency drops the impedance will also drop.
Well, the sinks lack fins & the usual techniques for maximizing air contact but they are still pretty massive compared to most boomer amps, unless someone can point out a blaster with beefier sinks. I really haven't seen the guts of too many blasters but the M70 for sure puts out more watts with 1/2 the size sink & both M70 sinks are flat u shaped plates that are stuffed behind a woofer so almost no air circulation occurs. The GF8989 I pimped out had tiny sinks, if I remember correctly & it was loud as FACK!

The 777 design is way more open, with lots of metal to wick away heat & i'm confident it'll go the long haul at close to 2 ohms. Anyway, I'll be the guinea pig & let you know how it goes. If you can get a good sound at lower than 4 ohms & still be efficient, you can squeeze out more raw DB which is a precious comodity for the GF. The power output could potentially see 10w/ch across all 4 channels & the coupling of 4 woofers adds 3db too over 2 woofer blasters, all else being equal. :breakdance:

Of course, with statements regarding 'nominal', I'm making a generalization based on a rough calculation using DC resistance. I think the BOSE woofers are gonna be pretty well behaved & present a pretty typical load to the amp.
 

tshorba

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Cpl-Chronic said:
unless someone can point out a blaster with beefier sinks.
Here is two that I have, they're compo systems but are still boomboxes nonetheless




The first one has the finned section attached to the main heatsink, the whole metal piece is a heatsink






This box has the highest AC draw I have seen on a boomer

I have more I will post when I take some photos
 

Superduper

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Cpl-Chronic said:
Well, the sinks lack fins & the usual techniques for maximizing air contact but they are still pretty massive compared to most boomer amps, unless someone can point out a blaster with beefier sinks. I really haven't seen the guts of too many blasters but the M70 for sure puts out more watts with 1/2 the size sink & both M70 sinks are flat u shaped plates that are stuffed behind a woofer so almost no air circulation occurs.
Once again, you take a stand and insists that it's true unless someone else "proves" to you that it's not. Tshorba just showed you an example. There are many more examples like that with boomboxes using large finned heatsinks. You said yourself that you haven't seen the guts of many boomers. We are telling you that there is nothing special about the GF-777 heatsinks. That is a common and inefficient design.

As for the M70, you need to understand a couple things. First, the M70 uses a completely different amp setup. Like the GF-777, it has 4 amplifiers but those 4 amplifiers powers only 2 speakers as each pair of amps powers only 1 channel (they are operating in bridged mode) and produce 7wpc (RMS) quite effortlessly (through 8-ohms). In contrast, the GF-777 pushes their 4 hitachi-amps (weaker than the 4 panasonic amps used in the JVC's imho) to power 4 speakers. Secondly, the M70 heatsinks are black and if you'll do some research, you will find that black sinks transfers heat better than plain silver sinks, and finally, unlike the 777 which made absolutely no effort to properly orient the sinks for reasons of convection, the M70 heatsinks are properly oriented in the vertical position and the U-shaped channel acts like a chimney that will draw cold air through and across the plates as heat rises. Anyone who's ever lit a match in a fireplace understands the chimney effect as the lit match instantly draws air up and resulting flow develops. The 777 sinks with the horizontal plates actual block, impede and trap heat in the pocket. It would take lots of lab time and proper instruments to determine which is actually more efficient but I would not be suprised one bit if the M70 heatsinks do a far better job at eliminating heat than the GF-777. In fact, if you look at the back of most M70's you will find a large amount of dust on the rear ventilation slats which suggests that the M70 design is quite efficient in pumping air through the chassis via simple convection. JVC did it right and took the time and effort to engineer a proper heatsink large enough for the application, coated for efficient heat tranfer, oriented to promote air flow rather than impede, and channeled to further charge the air flow.

Tshorba's amp is one example but on boomboxes (or all amps in general) where cooling is taken seriously, the cooling fins/slats are almost always vertical to properly channel air flow as the natural flow for heat is to rise. In fact, if you were to purchase a heatsink from companies such as thermalloy, their products always have product datasheets that show thermal resistance values given and the specs depend upon whether natural convection or fan cooling is employed and even the installed orientation will make a difference. You'll also find many will be black anodized for maximum heat transfer efficiency.

The point here is to make you aware that (1) there is far more to heatsink design and implementation than you know and (2) there is nothing special about the GF-777 heatsinks which really while they look impressive, does not suggest prowess of any remarkable nature. In fact, that design is quite cheap/common and lacks engineering time/effort to maximize efficiency.
 

Cpl-Chronic

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Well, 2 months later & still crankin' the BASS, LOUD & CLEAN & MEAN!!!!! 2.5 OHM BOSE woofers sound really balanced & thumpin' hard @ '0'(flat) & kickin' like a jack-hammer on everything from the stones, 'Slave' to Hashim, to Lunatics 'Midwest Swing'. Will post again in a few weeks to let you peeps know if its all good.

BAM!!!

Cheers, :-D
Cpl
 
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